The New Breed of Guitar Dealers - Do They Really Think Guitar Buyers Are That Stupid?

olafgarten

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

You pay 20% Capital Gains Tax on any individual item over £6000.

Sassafras

My problem with these guys is that they're artificially inflating the prices of used gear enough to skew people's views on pricing.

Strat54

Sassafras said:

My problem with these guys is that they're artificially inflating the prices of used gear enough to skew people's views on pricing.

Yes, agreed.

Bridgehouse

olafgarten said:

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

You pay 20% Capital Gains Tax on any individual item over £6000.

If you exceed your personal allowance per year of course... Which is £10k or so I think..

Cyberlawyer

Businesses generally don't pay capital gains on stock that they sell, they will pay tax based on the profits of the sale. It's pretty hard to pin down what tax a 'trader' should pay as there a several legitimate ways a trader can organise their business, each of which attracts a different tax treatment.

The obvious threshold is the turnover threshold whereby every business no matter how it's organised is required to register for VAT. This is currently £81k. However this isn't a definitive test as to if someone is a trader just a size ofor business that has to register for VAT.

IvisonGuitars

Strat54 said:

Here's Rolly's Guitars. They sell under  a private ebay account thus avoiding the fees that ebay would charge for a 'shop' and also avoiding not having to accept returns etc. Nice one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-PRS-Custom-24-Experience-Limited-Edition-Artist-Grade-Top-DEMO-VIDEO-/282264846534?hash=item41b84bc0c6:g:socAAOSwImRYNEty

http://www.rollysguitars.co.uk/category/electric-guitars/paul-reed-smith-prs/

Ah dear old Rolly, he tried to low ball me on here on a Matchless head I had for sale - I laughed him out of my inbox! Is he still lurking??

**Edit** Nope, he was banned. Gooooo on the mods! ;-)

musicman100

AvalonAndy said:

musicman100 said:

CloudNine said:

musicman100 said:

Imo gas isn't buying n selling ( that to some degree is dealing ). 

Gas is when ur accumulating lots of gear but not really a collector n never really get rid of anything.

Disagree. GAS is just the desire for the next aquisition. Whether that be by selling one to fund the next one, or whatever. It's the desire for the new, grass is greener etc. It's nothing to do with accumulating gear. If you own 1 guitar, but are changing it every few weeks, you are probably suffering from GAS issues.

you disagree that's fine with me. it's only my opinion. 

You're wrong. Cloudnine has nailed it there. That's what GAS is.

you obviously know more that me.
I would say if someone repeatedly buys a guitar n the clais they has gas n need to sell quickly to buy another one could actually look like a bedroom dealers.
I'm sure the taxman would disagree with you. 
call it whatever you want but if your buying n selling a lot ur close to been a bedroom dealer. 


but anyway what do I know.

AvalonAndy

*

Sassafras

That Rolly bloke's recorded an album.
I hope it's more exciting than his boring guitar demos.

musicman100

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

it's a grey area.
if your buying and selling a lot I'm sure you should really been registered n doing a self assessment regardless of profit.

musicman100

AvalonAndy said:

musicman100 said:

I would say if someone repeatedly buys a guitar n then claims they have gas n need to sell quickly to buy another one could actually look like a bedroom dealers. but anyway what do I know.

I don't even know what that is supposed to say mate.

bloody trying to type on my phone. ha ha 

guitars4you

Tax as we know creates many grey areas

If I buy a car for 10K and sell for 11K and stay within my personal allowance, on a one off transaction, I will pay no additional tax - so I'm led to believe

However if I buy a guitar, out of my own personal income and pay say 5K and sell for 6K, it is seen as tax avoidance as the business should have purchased it - I'm not meant to use my personal knowledge to enrich my personal income that competes against my business

As a 'legit' business that pays the appropriate tax etc, it does bug me that many 'bedroom dealers' pay little or no tax - I can't complain about any legit competition - But to compete against 'bedroom dealers' who pay no vat or corporation tax does go against the grain - With that in mind, I'm actually surprised our beloved government has not instigated a tax levy, say 5% on all e-bay sales at the point of the actual transaction, unless the seller provides vat and/or registered business details - Considering the sheer sales volume of e-bay, hence a serious amount of 'grey economy'  - Easy to administer as E-bay become the tax collector at the point of sale, like I collect vat for the government (a service I've never been paid for)

Further more, as many of you know, I exhibit at many guitar shows and what bugs me is when a 'bedroom dealer/exhibitor' asks me for a discount on a guitar that he wants to buy for 'his business', based on 'I'm one of you' or ' I'm in the trade as well' - sure you are

iain.reverb

Bridgehouse said:

olafgarten said:

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

You pay 20% Capital Gains Tax on any individual item over £6000.

If you exceed your personal allowance per year of course... Which is £10k or so I think..

Forgive me if I'm being thick here. 20% capital gains on a transaction over £6k. So seven transactions at £1k each wouldn't attract the tax ? That cant be right ?

sawyer

Let's hope they all reading this and go have a look at themselves in the mirror. It's the sob stories that annoy me. Trying to get it rock bottom by pleading poverty to make a few quid! Doesn't seem worth the effort. Agree its knocking up the perceived value of guitars too. Obviously you pay a premium to buy a guitar from a dealer as they have overheads to pay. You've just got to accept that and suck it up. But private individuals asking dealer prices having bought them to flip grinds on me. 

olafgarten

iain.reverb said:

Bridgehouse said:

olafgarten said:

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

You pay 20% Capital Gains Tax on any individual item over £6000.

If you exceed your personal allowance per year of course... Which is £10k or so I think..

Forgive me if I'm being thick here. 20% capital gains on a transaction over £6k. So seven transactions at £1k each wouldn't attract the tax ? That cant be right ?


-------------------------------------------------------------
That's just for Personal possessions. I think past a certain point you should register as a business. 

https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax-personal-possessions/what-you-pay-it-on

You could even argue that a Guitar has a limited lifespan and pay nothing. 

Strat_a_tat_tat

iain.reverb said:

Bridgehouse said:

olafgarten said:

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

You pay 20% Capital Gains Tax on any individual item over £6000.

If you exceed your personal allowance per year of course... Which is £10k or so I think..

Forgive me if I'm being thick here. 20% capital gains on a transaction over £6k. So seven transactions at £1k each wouldn't attract the tax ? That cant be right ?

That's not how it works.

... and bear in mind that individuals have an annual exempt amount of £11,100.

See https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/overview for more info. 

IvisonGuitars

.

iain.reverb

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

iain.reverb said:

Bridgehouse said:

olafgarten said:

iain.reverb said:

What are the tax rules on private selling ? Is it based on a turnover figure per year ?

You pay 20% Capital Gains Tax on any individual item over £6000.

If you exceed your personal allowance per year of course... Which is £10k or so I think..

Forgive me if I'm being thick here. 20% capital gains on a transaction over £6k. So seven transactions at £1k each wouldn't attract the tax ? That cant be right ?

That's not how it works.

... and bear in mind that individuals have an annual exempt amount of £11,100.

See https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/overview for more info. 

That's defintely a little clearer now.

Strat54

This was announced in today's budget..
The government is introducing a new tax relief to help those who buy and sell on a small scale, such as on internet auction sites or at car boot sales. From April 2017, the first £1,000 a year of income will not be taxable.

JookyChap

I must admit I'm with impmann on this - on here (and MR before) there used to almost be a pride in keeping good deals within the forum and I can think of plenty of people who have bought and sold things well below market rate (@impmann @meltedbuzzbox @blueskunk @DrBob @Iamnobody @stickyfiddle @guitargeek62 ;@johnnyburgo @AlexHunter @BowynMadley ;) and they are off the top of my head that I've been involved with, just because it was the right thing to do. 
It still happens - look at the 2015 Gibsons that went back up at Black Friday Amazon prices - but not so much now, and I think it is a real shame, we lost something there chaps.