The New Breed of Guitar Dealers - Do They Really Think Guitar Buyers Are That Stupid?

Strangefan

And what a surprise it has a daft price.... Especially for a non ten top. 

sawyer

Aye love McCarthys but they usually about the £1200/1300 mark. Someone trying to make a mega markup there. I missed one just like that recently (could possibly be the same one) at £1300 which i would of expected to get £1250. Sold my Custom 22 in avatar for £1200.  (Currently relisted at £1350 on here)Think these are more realistic prices for private sale.Prime example of guitar prices been bumped up. 

Dave_Mc

Neil said:

Dave_Mc said:

^ Before you posted I'd have tended to sympathise with @Neil 's post but that's a good point about people maybe signing up for the classifieds and then becoming active forum members.

Not sure what the answer is. You want to discourage the people who are solely signing up for the classifieds (especially if they're chancers), but you want to encourage people to sign up if they're going to post on the forum too...

Well perhaps people would wander in attracted by the classifieds, see the requisite frets required and then hang around and start posting to build up their profile, like the place and become contributing members.

I know they have similar restrictions on the offset forum.

Yeah I guess. I also imagine some might be put off if they have to sell quickly (or else just post a bunch of borderline spam posts to get their post count up, which sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing).

I mean, don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree with you- just I don't want to put off people who might join and then become active members (like @Norwegian_Blue ). Plus there's often a way around the safeguards you put in place, too...

TimmyO

I recall there was a bloke who used to frequent the Harmony Central classifieds who had a particular way of working:

He'd spot a high-end amp for sale somewhere (used stock in an online store, or for sale via another forum) then post an ad for the same thing (usually re-using the pics) on HC at a higher price. When he got a buyer, he bought from the other source.

He always passed them off as his.

When he got caught the forum member did some digging and picked up a long list of time he'd done this.
Folk were split over whether it was fair game or  Not Cricket.

I fell in to the Not Cricket camp - as he had no idea whether these things were working or in good order when he took money for them.  

ICBM

Not only Not Cricket but illegal - selling something that wasn't his to sell at the time.

SimpleSimon

ICBM said:

Not only Not Cricket but illegal - selling something that wasn't his to sell at the time.

Exactly that is literally criminal.

robgilmo

ICBM said:

Not only Not Cricket but illegal - selling something that wasn't his to sell at the time.

I don't think drop selling is illegal.

robgilmo

I think people just have no idea of how much something is worth, I made a very good offer on a Vox amp the other day, more than they usually sell for, I was told by the seller that they would rather take it to the council tip than let it go for that, madness.

guitars4you

SimpleSimon said:

I dont get these ebsy listers who pretend to be a guitar store selling somthing from 2001 and then pretend/advertise it as new old stock or mint. 

heres an example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-STUNNING-2001-Paul-Reed-Smith-PRS-McCARTY-LEMON-HONEYBURST-MOONS-Candy-/182365134722?hash=item2a75cf1f82:g:ARwAAOSwcLxYE12B

The worse is the 'bedroom dealer' who buys a new guitar from the USA, brings it in to the UK and lists it as a new guitar - NO IT IS USED  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  - Legally and morally - You are not an authorized dealer for that brand so how can you sell it as new - Yes list it as mint, barely played etc, but it is not new - If it was new you'd pay our beloved leaders 20% vat on the transaction when sold

And yes as per above Simon, NOS is only valid to a dealer in that store, who is an authorized stockist of that brand - You can sell it as mint, near new, pristine, barely played or what ever phrase you like but not NOS

WezV

guitars4you said:

 

And yes as per above Simon, NOS is only valid to a dealer in that store, who is an authorized stockist of that brand - You can sell it as mint, near new, pristine, barely played or what ever phrase you like but not NOS

it used to be used when people found boxes of old unused stuff - the original dealer probably didn't exist anymore

Now it tends to mean last years model that never sold

Modellista

guitars4you said:

SimpleSimon said:

I dont get these ebsy listers who pretend to be a guitar store selling somthing from 2001 and then pretend/advertise it as new old stock or mint. 

heres an example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-STUNNING-2001-Paul-Reed-Smith-PRS-McCARTY-LEMON-HONEYBURST-MOONS-Candy-/182365134722?hash=item2a75cf1f82:g:ARwAAOSwcLxYE12B

The worse is the 'bedroom dealer' who buys a new guitar from the USA, brings it in to the UK and lists it as a new guitar - NO IT IS USED  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  - Legally and morally - You are not an authorized dealer for that brand so how can you sell it as new - Yes list it as mint, barely played etc, but it is not new - If it was new you'd pay our beloved leaders 20% vat on the transaction when sold

And yes as per above Simon, NOS is only valid to a dealer in that store, who is an authorized stockist of that brand - You can sell it as mint, near new, pristine, barely played or what ever phrase you like but not NOS

An interesting perspective - that whether you are an authorised dealer determines whether the instrument is new or used, rather than its objective condition.  Personally, if the reseller has bought the guitar and not touched it, it's newer in my book than most guitars hanging in shops which are sold as new. Which are actually used because every Tom, Dick and Harriet have put their grubby mitts on them for weeks before they get sold.  

guitars4you

modellista said:

guitars4you said:

SimpleSimon said:

I dont get these ebsy listers who pretend to be a guitar store selling somthing from 2001 and then pretend/advertise it as new old stock or mint. 

heres an example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-STUNNING-2001-Paul-Reed-Smith-PRS-McCARTY-LEMON-HONEYBURST-MOONS-Candy-/182365134722?hash=item2a75cf1f82:g:ARwAAOSwcLxYE12B

The worse is the 'bedroom dealer' who buys a new guitar from the USA, brings it in to the UK and lists it as a new guitar - NO IT IS USED  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  - Legally and morally - You are not an authorized dealer for that brand so how can you sell it as new - Yes list it as mint, barely played etc, but it is not new - If it was new you'd pay our beloved leaders 20% vat on the transaction when sold

And yes as per above Simon, NOS is only valid to a dealer in that store, who is an authorized stockist of that brand - You can sell it as mint, near new, pristine, barely played or what ever phrase you like but not NOS

An interesting perspective - that whether you are an authorised dealer determines whether the instrument is new or used, rather than its objective condition.  Personally, if the reseller has bought the guitar and not touched it, it's newer in my book than most guitars hanging in shops which are sold as new. Which are actually used because every Tom, Dick and Harriet have put their grubby mitts on them for weeks before they get sold.  

But legally it is still used - a sales receipt has been issued by the original dealer to a customer, who then as an unofficial 'bedroom dealer' attempts to still sell it as a new instrument

I agree that not all stock on a dealers wall is in tip top new condition, but that is a different issue, as legally that stock is still new  But once a sales receipt has been issued that guitar is now used 

Further more 'the bedroom' dealer who is attempting to sell it as a new guitar, can they offer the official manufactures warranty, if required ????? - I think we all no the answer 

Furthermore, I think selling such a guitar as not used is not accurate in nearly all instances - mint, as new, nigh on mint, barely touched are fine, but not touched is pushing it a bit - I bet they played a few licks on it to check it out - Sorry but I have a pet hate on this 'Never Played Tag' as the manufacture has played it at the final inspection - The dealer will have played it to check it is fine - The buyer will have played it, to check it is 'road worthy' - Pedantic, but valid - MINT, AS NEW ARE FINE but NEVER NOT PLAYED

I agree that many dealers let new stock get in a 'dirty' condition and fail to keep them clean and 'retail ready' and I have very little defense for that, but equally the option of going down 'The Argos' form of retail, whereby you pick the guitar from  a picture is not valid in a bricks and mortar format on a high street store is it with regards to a guitar ?

sawyer

TTony said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

It feels like the classifieds is becoming the biggest driver for the forum, with that it seems to be bringing quite a lot of the clowns from eBay and Gumtree. 

Indeed.

The Classifieds is - always has been - a very busy part of the community.  As you'd expect given how much buying & selling & lusting we all do.

But I've noticed more and more people who join and head straight for the Classifieds and only ever post in the Classifieds.  They don't join in the rest of the discussions, and don't bring anything to add to the community.  

In which case the Classifieds is no longer something to support the community, it's become a separated part of the forum that is actually taking value from the community because the new joiners don't understand the "pay it forward" ethos that exists/existed.


When someone spots and flags one of the bedroom dealers, they usually get de-membered.  Not because I begrudge someone earning an honest (if slightly underhand) bit of profit, but because they're undermining the original nature of the community and using it purely for their own financial gain.

Mm I've  flagged a bedroom dealer and nothing seems to have been done about it:s

Strangefan

^^^How to shoot yourself in the foot ^^^ well played Sir 

Voxman

@ttony - 'pay it forward' ethos??  Not sure I know what that means

sawyer

Strangefan said:

^^^How to shoot yourself in the foot ^^^ well played Sir 

I'll take one for the team if it means something's done about it rather than Mods saying something will be done. 

Alnico

If I've understood Tony correctly I think he means that someone who for example sells a lot of high end gear, could be a very valuable addition to the knowledge, information and value of the forums, but if they only ever buy and sell we're all losing out or rather the forum is losing out, especially if you look into the future when people will search for info historically.

If @Gassage didn't post and only traded we would never know anything about what drives him to use certain gear but because he does we get all the info related to that equipment.

I *Think* that's what it means but as always, cue the clowns i'm, probably wrong.

mgaw

Voxman said:

@ttony - 'pay it forward' ethos??  Not sure I know what that means

do a good turn with the hope of one being returned to you at a later date @Voxman ;

Voxman

mgaw said:

Voxman said:

@ttony - 'pay it forward' ethos??  Not sure I know what that means

do a good turn with the hope of one being returned to you at a later date @Voxman ;

Thanks for clarifying...I think I read it 4-5 times trying to figure out what it meant! 

DrCornelius

Since I discovered the FB I've bought and sold loads on here , some at a loss some at a profit . I'm probably down about £500 overall but in that time I've owned and played guitars that I could never afford to keep since I changed careers. Typically I'll keep something for around a year if I like it , a few months if its 'ok' and weeks if I've made a mistake. 

For me its like a gentle addiction in that there's always something for sale that I 'really really' want, in saying that I know plenty of blokes my age with far mor destructive addictions so I'm relaxed about it.

Does that make me a bedroom dealer ? If so I'm not very good at it