Brands that succeed despite being shite...

ICBM

Reverend said:

Pepper can slate new Marshall all they want but no one on this forum has an amp they could tempt me to swap for mine.

Marshall TSL122?

Comes with a 30-minute warranty!

rlw

Bang & Olufsen springs to mind.  Overpriced bling.

Gassage

ICBM said:

Gassage said:

thecolourbox said:

Gassage said:

Audi.

Why any sane person would buy a £40k exec car with front wheel drive beggars belief.

Having watched a few other branded cars with rear wheel drives several times in the snow and laughed, I'd suggest that might count in their favour?

Yes, on that 2.7% of days in the year on average when snow falls.

The rest of the time, it's an horrendous and competely daft arrangement.

It makes no difference if you don't drive a car in a way that makes the difference matter - which the vast majority of us don't, the vast majority of the time. Or usually all of the time.

FWD - no difference, except better than RWD in snow.
4WD - best in snow.

Thus there is no point in RWD at all.

Sorry you are just wrong. Like really wrong.

Example: Roundabout junction in wet, with ruts on road. Accelerate and you'll be torque steering like a dingy in the ocean. Horrible.

Second, lose a front wheel drive car and you've lost it totally. Rear wheel, add power, and let the car come back to stability.

Third; comfort and refinement- in a different league. Balance is 50/50 whereas a Fr WD will be c. 75/25. Drive a Fr W D car down the motorways of Belgium at a reasonable pace and you'll be exhusted from the wheel chattering hither and thither- RWD, you won't even notice it.

Fourthy, solidity. Curb a front wheel drive car hard and you've stuffed a drive shaft- big job. Do it in a RWD car and you'll have a 40 quid tracking bill

No Audi sport models have front wheel drive cos it's shite- they're all Quattros.

If you don't believe me do this- grab a dumbell woith two 10kg plates on it take one weight off it and replace with a 2.5KG weight. Hold in hand and twist it quickly- you'll virtually break your arm when the heavier plate is on the outside of your twist. Put the 10KG weight back on and repeat. Much easier.

Now, I do agree Fr WD is better in snow, but in the last ten years the UK has had precisely 27 days of snow.

I have no issue with Fr W D in a mini or a compact hatch, but my point re Audi is how they have the brassneck to charge the same for a similar LUXURY car that would be RWD from Merc or BMW, when Fr W Drive costs a fraction of the cost to produce and provides a significantly poorer driving experience in normal conditions.

Je repose ma valise.

CHRISB50

LooseMoose

Gassage said:

ICBM said:

Gassage said:

thecolourbox said:

Gassage said:

Audi.

Why any sane person would buy a £40k exec car with front wheel drive beggars belief.

Having watched a few other branded cars with rear wheel drives several times in the snow and laughed, I'd suggest that might count in their favour?

Yes, on that 2.7% of days in the year on average when snow falls.

The rest of the time, it's an horrendous and competely daft arrangement.

It makes no difference if you don't drive a car in a way that makes the difference matter - which the vast majority of us don't, the vast majority of the time. Or usually all of the time.

FWD - no difference, except better than RWD in snow.
4WD - best in snow.

Thus there is no point in RWD at all.

Sorry you are just wrong. Like really wrong.

Example: Roundabout junction in wet, with ruts on road. Accelerate and you'll be torque steering like a dingy in the ocean. Horrible.

Second, lose a front wheel drive car and you've lost it totally. Rear wheel, add power, and let the car come back to stability.

Third; comfort and refinement- in a different league. Balance is 50/50 whereas a Fr WD will be c. 75/25. Drive a Fr W D car down the motorways of Belgium at a reasonable pace and you'll be exhusted from the wheel chattering hither and thither- RWD, you won't even notice it.

Fourthy, solidity. Curb a front wheel drive car hard and you've stuffed a drive shaft- big job. Do it in a RWD car and you'll have a 40 quid tracking bill

No Audi sport models have front wheel drive cos it's shite- they're all Quattros.

If you don't believe me do this- grab a dumbell woith two 10kg plates on it take one weight off it and replace with a 2.5KG weight. Hold in hand and twist it quickly- you'll virtually break your arm when the heavier plate is on the outside of your twist. Put the 10KG weight back on and repeat. Much easier.

Now, I do agree Fr WD is better in snow, but in the last ten years the UK has had precisely 27 days of snow.

I have no issue with Fr W D in a mini or a compact hatch, but my point re Audi is how they have the brassneck to charge the same for a similar LUXURY car that would be RWD from Merc or BMW, when Fr W Drive costs a fraction of the cost to produce and provides a significantly poorer driving experience in normal conditions.

Je repose ma valise.

But assuming you *don't* drive like a bellend, you will never notice the difference?  Roundabout junction in wet = accelerate gently?  Lose a front wheel drive car?  Why...you were driving too fast or not paying attention then. Comfort and refinement? I'd marginally agree but the difference is so miniscule as to be barely worthy of mention.  Curbing wheels?  What about not driving into curbs - I'm no Daniel Ricciardo but I've not curbed a wheel yet.

All of this being said and with all of these points taken into consideration, Pink Floyd are awesome and David Gilmour is god, so it's all good.

Snap

I drive a 4WD cos I like big monstrous cars. For something more "normal" I'd have RWD every time, its (for me) more comfortable and just feels a better drive, more balanced responsive etc.

the snow argument is a load of crap unless you live in the country high up. But then if you live in such a place, you are probably related to all your neighbours and do weird things when the moon is full as well.

olafgarten

MrBump said:

professorben said:

Dyson, unreliable, heavy, gimmick based products, if their design dept was as good as their marketing dept, they would be world beating. 

This.

The old Dysons were great, the new ones are less good, but still work well. We have a DC08 that is almost 20 years old and it still works perfectly. 

TimmyO

hywelg said:

Doom Bar......

You are dead to me @hywelg !

crunchman

Winny_Pooh said:

crunchman said:

Various London restaurant chains.  Bill's is probably the worst.

You're possibly spoilt living in Surrey, Bill's is great. And I've been to the Guildford and Reigate branches. 

Apart from not living in Surrey, Bill's is rubbish.

Some of my gripes about Bill's may just be the Chiswick branch, maybe the other branches have seats that are comfortable and don't wobble when you sit on them.  That's not a good starting point when you go in there and the first thing you do is sit on an uncomfortable wobbly chair.

You then get a drink.  They tell you that the "Bill's Beer" is English style beer so you get that.  It comes so cold you would think it's been stored in Antarctica, and a with a glass that has been stored in the freezer.  Gah!

Then when you get the food it gets worse.  They can't just put it on the plate.  You get some kind of branded greaseproof paper on the plate (at least with a burger).  Every thing comes in it's own container.  The skinny chips (yuk) come in their own container, the overpriced puny portion of guacamole that you pay extra for comes in another container.  If I order burger and chips with guacamole just put it on a plate.  Don't kill the food (and the environment) by putting extra branded greaseproof paper and giving me loads of extra containers.

The service in there hasn't been great either.  I'm also sure that I've ordered a dessert from the menu that I like the look of and been told that they don't have it.

To me, Bill's is the epitome of the branded chain restaurant and all the bad things that go with that.  Just let me get decent food on one plate, without all the pretentious rubbish, and a decent beer (preferably on draught) to drink with it.

TimmyO

Slinky strings

olafgarten

Also I haven't tried many B&O Products, but they look good and are reliable.

I've had their H3 headphones for almost 4 years now and they have lasted longer than any other in ear headphones I have had in the past, including Shure SE215s, RHA MA750is and Klipsch X10s. 

Gassage

LooseMoose said:

Gassage said:

ICBM said:

Gassage said:

thecolourbox said:

Gassage said:

Audi.

Why any sane person would buy a £40k exec car with front wheel drive beggars belief.

Having watched a few other branded cars with rear wheel drives several times in the snow and laughed, I'd suggest that might count in their favour?

Yes, on that 2.7% of days in the year on average when snow falls.

The rest of the time, it's an horrendous and competely daft arrangement.

It makes no difference if you don't drive a car in a way that makes the difference matter - which the vast majority of us don't, the vast majority of the time. Or usually all of the time.

FWD - no difference, except better than RWD in snow.
4WD - best in snow.

Thus there is no point in RWD at all.

Sorry you are just wrong. Like really wrong.

Example: Roundabout junction in wet, with ruts on road. Accelerate and you'll be torque steering like a dingy in the ocean. Horrible.

Second, lose a front wheel drive car and you've lost it totally. Rear wheel, add power, and let the car come back to stability.

Third; comfort and refinement- in a different league. Balance is 50/50 whereas a Fr WD will be c. 75/25. Drive a Fr W D car down the motorways of Belgium at a reasonable pace and you'll be exhusted from the wheel chattering hither and thither- RWD, you won't even notice it.

Fourthy, solidity. Curb a front wheel drive car hard and you've stuffed a drive shaft- big job. Do it in a RWD car and you'll have a 40 quid tracking bill

No Audi sport models have front wheel drive cos it's shite- they're all Quattros.

If you don't believe me do this- grab a dumbell woith two 10kg plates on it take one weight off it and replace with a 2.5KG weight. Hold in hand and twist it quickly- you'll virtually break your arm when the heavier plate is on the outside of your twist. Put the 10KG weight back on and repeat. Much easier.

Now, I do agree Fr WD is better in snow, but in the last ten years the UK has had precisely 27 days of snow.

I have no issue with Fr W D in a mini or a compact hatch, but my point re Audi is how they have the brassneck to charge the same for a similar LUXURY car that would be RWD from Merc or BMW, when Fr W Drive costs a fraction of the cost to produce and provides a significantly poorer driving experience in normal conditions.

Je repose ma valise.

But assuming you *don't* drive like a bellend, you will never notice the difference?  Roundabout junction in wet = accelerate gently?  Lose a front wheel drive car?  Why...you were driving too fast or not paying attention then. Comfort and refinement? I'd marginally agree but the difference is so miniscule as to be barely worthy of mention.  Curbing wheels?  What about not driving into curbs - I'm no Daniel Ricciardo but I've not curbed a wheel yet.

All of this being said and with all of these points taken into consideration, Pink Floyd are awesome and David Gilmour is god, so it's all good.

OK,

Would you buy a Marshall Valvestate for the same retail price as a valve amp?

That's putting it very simply and that's what Audi are asking.

LooseMoose

Gassage said:

That's putting it very simply and that's what Audi are asking.

Yet another fabulous reason not to buy an Audi

Gassage

I have a ridiculous list of 'deal killers' for cars.

Sunroof- essential
Fixed Nav- essential
Tinted glass: hideous- deal killer
FrWD: deal killer
Cloth seats: deal killer
Red: deal killer
Manual on a diesel: deal killer
Auto on Petrol; deal killer.

Bucket

Apple.

Overpriced, style over substance, with a fucking useless, horrible "walled garden" approach to connectivity that makes everything needlessly difficult unless you do everything Apple's way and buy all their other products as well.

crunchman

Gassage said:

OK,

Would you buy a Marshall Valvestate for the same retail price as a valve amp?

That's putting it very simply and that's what Audi are asking.

There are benefits from front wheel drive.

You get more space inside from not having to have a raised bit for the driveshaft.

You save a significant amount of weight through not needing a drive shaft and a rear diff, which will improve economy.  Even on a bigger car that's important for a lot of people.

I understand what you are saying, but for most people, in normal driving situations it's irrelevant.

I don't think the Valvestate analogy works.  At this price point you would be comparing different styles of valve amp.  It's more like whether you have a practical 1 x 12 combo (e.g. Hot Rod Deluxe), or some beast like a DR103.  Yes, in the right circumstances the DR103 will kill the the HRD but if you go to a gig at the Dog and Duck you are far more likely to see a Hot Rod Deluxe.

rlw

olafgarten said:

Also I haven't tried many B&O Products, but they look good and are reliable.

I've had their H3 headphones for almost 4 years now and they have lasted longer than any other in ear headphones I have had in the past, including Shure SE215s, RHA MA750is and Klipsch X10s. 

Reliable, more than likely, but overpriced, overstyled bling in many cases.

http://www.selfridges.com/GB/en/cat/bang-olufsen/

NelsonP

Gassage said:

lose a front wheel drive car and you've lost it totally.

Not true - watch the touring cars. You can recover oversteer fairly easily in a FWD car by turning into the slide and applying throttle.

RWD is more fun and give you more options, but only at and around the limit, which most of the time you don't want to do on the public road.

Sadly, best thing on the road is probably the safest = 4WD

PS B&O stereos in Audi's are actually quite good (in attempt to get back on topic) - but their home stuff is overpriced junk

Gassage

crunchman said:

Gassage said:

OK,

Would you buy a Marshall Valvestate for the same retail price as a valve amp?

That's putting it very simply and that's what Audi are asking.

There are benefits from front wheel drive.

You get more space inside from not having to have a raised bit for the driveshaft.

You save a significant amount of weight through not needing a drive shaft and a rear diff, which will improve economy.  Even on a bigger car that's important for a lot of people.

I understand what you are saying, but for most people, in normal driving situations it's irrelevant.

I don't think the Valvestate analogy works.  At this price point you would be comparing different styles of valve amp.  It's more like whether you have a practical 1 x 12 combo (e.g. Hot Rod Deluxe), or some beast like a DR103.  Yes, in the right circumstances the DR103 will kill the the HRD but if you go to a gig at the Dog and Duck you are far more likely to see a Hot Rod Deluxe.

I am a purist.

And, given the chance, RWD with rear engine is the most wonderful (dry) driving experience ever.

57Deluxe

'The Tone King' on Youtube - who in the hell follows that moron...?