The Fractal Thread

mrkb · April 29

FM3 firmware 8 now out, which catches up with most of the bigger unit’s functions.

Octavio · May 2

How old are the amp models on the FM9? I know there's circa 300, but the company has been around a long time. Is there a section of 'legacy' amps that users don't use? Or did Fractal update them all before the FM9 release

Researching for a friend * ahem *

sweepy · May 2

Pretty much all new amps the new firmware and Cygnus revamped most of of them, go on, treat yourself, the new FM9 is probably the best vfm modeller out there, either used as an Fx unit in 4cm or a standalone modeller

mrkb · May 2

They amp models all get regularly updates as the modelling technology used in the firmware evolves. They get remeasured and tuned in against the latest firmware. Fractal is the most active in keeping their technology updated.

Roland · May 2

Octavio said:

How old are the amp models on the FM9? I know there's circa 300, but the company has been around a long time. Is there a section of 'legacy' amps that users don't use? Or did Fractal update them all before the FM9 release

Fractal owns a number of classic amps which Cliff Chase measures. It also borrows amps for measurement. A lot of amps will have been re-measured for the current firmware release, but obviously not all of them.

Octavio said:

Researching for a friend * ahem *

There are two FM9 Turbos in the Classifieds at the moment. Buy one and try. If things don’t work out then you can recycle through the Classifieds.

Gadget · May 2

Roland said:

Octavio said:

How old are the amp models on the FM9? I know there's circa 300, but the company has been around a long time. Is there a section of 'legacy' amps that users don't use? Or did Fractal update them all before the FM9 release
Fractal owns a number of classic amps which Cliff Chase measures. It also borrows amps for measurement. A lot of amps will have been re-measured for the current firmware release, but obviously not all of them.

Re-mastered, rather than re-measured, and all the amps have been done except FA's own 'imagined' FAS models.

Octavio · May 2

What's with the FM9 'MKII' Turbo? Looks the exact same and I thought the Turbo was a recent release anyway. More processing power?

mrkb · May 2

Octavio said:

What's with the FM9 'MKII' Turbo? Looks the exact same and I thought the Turbo was a recent release anyway. More processing power?

Same processing power, just slightly bigger scribble strip windows.

Roland · May 3

Something I discovered back in the Ultra days was that changes in amp modelling often brought more clarity, and lead me to remove little tricks that I’d been using. That hasn’t happened for several years. This afternoon I’ve upgraded to 25.1. Yes I know that the latest firmware is 25.2, but it doesn’t contain anything I need. I spent a couple of hours going through our setlist, checking the patches. The only change I’ve made is to remove some EQ boosts around 1kHz which I’d been using to help cut through. Remember that I’m only using the Vibroverb AMP type, so my experience may be different from other users.

There’s been talk about a new Vox amp model. When I next get some time, ie when it’s raining and I can’t get out in the garden, I’ll play around with it.

Nerine · May 4

It’s very difficult to fault the FM9.

I think it’s the best solution available.

I’ll have another one at some point.

thomasw88 · May 19

Nerine said:

It’s very difficult to fault the FM9.

I think it’s the best solution available.

I’ll have another one at some point.

Hypothetically, Would you use it in 4cm or as an all in one? Your thread about why you went back to amp/pedalboard resonated a lot with me. I’m currently on a helix lt and there’s a lot I like about it. It’s easy to use, it does sound good and there’s a lot of options.

However, the drives , modulation and delays pedals don’t sound as good as my pedalboard which is a problem . I’m spending ages at home tweaking a basic patch trying to emulate my pedalboard and it’s not working so far. Would the fm3 or possibly fm9 be that much better?

Roland · May 19

thomasw88 said:

Hypothetically, Would you use it in 4cm or as an all in one? Your thread about why you went back to amp/pedalboard resonated a lot with me. I’m currently on a helix lt and there’s a lot I like about it. It’s easy to use, it does sound good and there’s a lot of options.

However, the drives , modulation and delays pedals don’t sound as good as my pedalboard which is a problem . I’m spending ages at home tweaking a basic patch trying to emulate my pedalboard and it’s not working so far. Would the fm3 or possibly fm9 be that much better?

For me the days of 4cm went out as soon as I switched to Fractal. Once you put the guitar in a band mix the differences between modelling and valves become irrelevant. I’m not saying that they don’t exist. For some styles of playing they’re not noticeable, and where they are noticeable to the player they’re not noticeable to the audience.

When it comes to sitting at home tweaking models to match pedals you will always notice slight differences. The same happens if you compare two tubescreamer pedals, particularly the older ones where components have aged, or were less consistent in the first place. The delays and modulation in the FM9 are very high quality, and there are lots of them. Whether you prefer a particular model to a particular pedal is personal choice.

Nerine · May 19

thomasw88 said:

Nerine said:

It’s very difficult to fault the FM9.

I think it’s the best solution available.

I’ll have another one at some point.

Hypothetically, Would you use it in 4cm or as an all in one? Your thread about why you went back to amp/pedalboard resonated a lot with me. I’m currently on a helix lt and there’s a lot I like about it. It’s easy to use, it does sound good and there’s a lot of options.

However, the drives , modulation and delays pedals don’t sound as good as my pedalboard which is a problem . I’m spending ages at home tweaking a basic patch trying to emulate my pedalboard and it’s not working so far. Would the fm3 or possibly fm9 be that much better?

I tried the FM9 in 4CM a few times and honestly I thought my pedalboard sounded better in that scenario. Everything just kinda sounded less present and direct in comparison to my analogue board.

paulmapp8306 · May 20

Im revisiting this a lot.

the "front of amp" FX dont have the same impedances as real pedals, nor do they interreact with the guitars impedance as well. sonically there decent (if not up to the amp sims IMO) and work just fine in a Fractal only system - in fact Im ow primarily using ONE patch with some drives in cfront (I say primarily - because Im actually using two lol. One is celan amp - in a pedal platform way, and the other a driven amp with some selected boosts/OD to flavour and provide a lead sound - BUt Im using the first method 90% of the time).

Post amp FX - the modulation s - are really good. Even the "analogue" delays are decent...if not obviously analogue.

I am - after using Fractals almost exclusively since 2007, in the process of choosing an amp (1x12 combo) and will then build a pedalboard. Im NOT dong this because Im unhappy with my Fractal gear, or fed up, or ywant for real valves as such. Im doing it because my keys/synth rig is complete from what I can tell. Im happy with my guitars and AFX, and studio stuff. Im now 57 and I just want a top notch, hand built, point to point anmp with some selected analogue only pedals for pure indulgence. It will never be used live (in a band context) and only very occasionally in a jam type senario. Its just for my own pleasure.

I fully intend however, to test the front end FX - drives and compressor - from that analogue rig in front of the Fractal. Im quite intrigued to find out how much better they are than the digital emulations - and indeed if a hybrid analogue front end into modelling and digital back end is any better in reality to fully digital.

welshboyo · May 20

I went back to a real amp with FM9 in 4CM (so JVM 410) and whilst it sounded fine, the whole ballache of lugging an amp around, dealing with venue to venue tone inconsistencies and general louder onstage volumes I've now gone back to FM9 only and the JVM is gathering dust again!!!

IMO, its pointless trying to exactly emulate a pedalboard into a real amp as you have all the impedance discrepancies, patch cable tone-loss, longer cable tone-loss and not all pedals sound the same...neither do the amp models or components etc.

4CM with FM9 is perfectly adequate and unless you have the hearing of a bat then in general there is not a massive difference..

DavusPG · May 20

welshboyo said:

I went back to a real amp with FM9 in 4CM (so JVM 410) and whilst it sounded fine, the whole ballache of lugging an amp around, dealing with venue to venue tone inconsistencies and general louder onstage volumes I've now gone back to FM9 only and the JVM is gathering dust again!!!

I did exactly the same a couple of years ago - gigging my FM9 in 4CM with a valve head and the additional aggro just wasn't worth it. In a band mix the difference wasn't noticeable at all, and to my ears was only slight in isolation. Neither necessarily better than the other, just different.

thomasw88 · May 23

DavusPG said:

welshboyo said:

I went back to a real amp with FM9 in 4CM (so JVM 410) and whilst it sounded fine, the whole ballache of lugging an amp around, dealing with venue to venue tone inconsistencies and general louder onstage volumes I've now gone back to FM9 only and the JVM is gathering dust again!!!

I did exactly the same a couple of years ago - gigging my FM9 in 4CM with a valve head and the additional aggro just wasn't worth it. In a band mix the difference wasn't noticeable at all, and to my ears was only slight in isolation. Neither necessarily better than the other, just different.

That's a pity. I prefer real amps but am keen to replace my pedal board so I can automate song sounds, with the option where suitable to use it as the amp as well for certain gigs.

I Thought the fm9 would do that. But if it's not going to replace / match my pedals it's not really worth it .

Be good if they released a new fx8 mk 3..

nero1701 · May 23

I use the FM3 and the H90 in a couple of different ways and have specific patches set up for both.

1. I use them together in a 4cm with cab sim disabled into a Harley benton poweramp into a 1x12 cab.

2. I make a mash up wet/dry with a similar to above but also to my Tone king imperial

Both sound great but no.2 is a faff.

I'd quite like to ditch the amps and go in ear but the rest of the band are hesitant.

I think that with a bit of time, you can get a great pedalboard feel with way more flexibility using the FM3

Bennyboy-UK · May 23

Just over this last couple of weeks, I've set up my FM3 with my little Bogner Atma using a 4 cable method which was demonstrated by Leon Todd in this video.

I took my time over this because I rarely play out ever, and love my FM3 to death for recording, and had a small pedal board which I was building up to use with the Bogner.

I was agonising over whether to go and get an FRFR, or power amp and Cab - knowing that I had decent ingredients already at home.

I thought that the method that Leons video demonstrates along with the example Presets he goes through was really helpful because it gives me the option of:

* Using Presets with the FM3 amp models as well as the effects and the Atma Power Amp and speaker for the volume

* Having Presets using the Atma preamp and FM3 effects, pre and post.

Both of these have easy control of levels using the top two little level knobs, and lots of control using the scenes in the usual way.

I had cables made up for the job and colour coded them and bunged them into a wrap to keep it tidy and simple to remember.

Image: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53741128565_054a9316b8_o.jpg

I had previously tried a very basic 4 cable method with another amp - but that set up was a lot less sophisticated and levels and balance were a nightmare.

As I say, I'm not a jobbing player, but this set up was really satisfying to sort out - the sounds are excellent and the set up and presets feel logical to my mind.

For someone like me at my level - I feel like I've got a really nice set up with lots of flexibility for the very scarce occasions I got out to play!

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