The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

VimFuego

I wonder if he saw himself as more of a reformer, someone to clear out the blairites from the party and turn it into a more progressive force, then hand over to someone more dynamic and broader appealing (not up on labour party politics so dunno who this would be, Kier Stammer seems to be well spoken off in some quarters, as does Andy Burnham). OFC this is all just me theory crafting and I'm probably wrong. If it was the case then he'd have never allowed this election to be called. If he thinks he can make in roads into the tories at the moment, with him in charge, he is even more delusional than me.

Fretwired

Emp_Fab said:

What pisses me off about Corbyn, and this has nothing to do with his policies, which I generally support, or his awkward personality, which is not his fault, is the fact that he must surely know that with him at the helm, Labour are almost certain to be anihilated on June 8th, and he will have to resign as a result.  Surely the better option - the less selfish option - would have been to make way for a younger leader who is a good orator - someone who at least had a chance of keeping the conservative advance at bay, instead of virtually guarantee its success.

Corbyn is supported by Momentum and Unite and his role is to take the party left and purge it of the Blairites via a disastrous election - that's the only logical explanation given the level of disunity on show. Unite can then select left wing candidates and they can push for a win in 2022. An old fashioned left wing Labour party will have appeal in Scotland and the pain of the Brexit negotiations will turn many off the Tories - Labour may not win but could form a coalition. Corbyn will probably standing down later this year or in 2018.

Evilmags

VimFuego said:

I wonder if he saw himself as more of a reformer, someone to clear out the blairites from the party and turn it into a more progressive force, then hand over to someone more dynamic and broader appealing (not up on labour party politics so dunno who this would be, Kier Stammer seems to be well spoken off in some quarters, as does Andy Burnham). OFC this is all just me theory crafting and I'm probably wrong. If it was the case then he'd have never allowed this election to be called. If he thinks he can make in roads into the tories at the moment, with him in charge, he is even more delusional than me.

Nothing in Corbyn's long career suggests anything close to that level of intelligence. Kier Stammer (who is bright and capable) will get steamrollered by the Corbynista / Momentum lot in any leadership run anyway. Burnam and Khan are both keeping a healthy distance from Corbyn and are cemented in their posts as regional Barons. (Watch how absent they are in the GE campaign).

It is genuinely sad to see the potential opposition reduced to a flank of idiots and no hopers. Emily Thornbury is the stupidest politician I hace ever seen. 

Nitefly

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

Heartfeltdawn

Myranda said:

Overall in the UK Corbyn inspired the mass blue-ification of local councils... if the General election goes this way then even a coalition of all the opposition parties wont be enough to even hinder the Cons in the commons... the only real hope is that the 30% turnout was the cause and will prompt a lot of people to vote in panic to stop the bluest governent in a very long time... 

Corbyn wasn't responsible for the first Conservative PM in a long time in 2010 or his return in 2015 with a majority. He isn't responsible for being smashed in Scotland over the last few years. The Labour malaise has been there since Iraq. The cracks were widened over time and really all Corbyn has done is to accentuate the division that was already there within his own party. 

At the same time the Conservatives are the party with the appeal to the greater amount of the electorate and a lot of that is down to Brexit. By putting the focus on Corbyn, too many commentators (not you, dear Myranda) haven't given the Conservatives credit for what they have done. 

The key phrase to have come out of this week has been 'urban Conservative'. It's one that has been around America for some time and now it's come here. The mayoral election has been a Conservative success as predicted. For my patch, I still think it was gutless of the opposition parties to go along with the scheme. With metro mayors and PCC elections, it's additional bureaucracy and a chance for more Conservative control. What happened to less red tape? 

Evilmags

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Emp_Fab said:

What pisses me off about Corbyn, and this has nothing to do with his policies, which I generally support, or his awkward personality, which is not his fault, is the fact that he must surely know that with him at the helm, Labour are almost certain to be anihilated on June 8th, and he will have to resign as a result.  Surely the better option - the less selfish option - would have been to make way for a younger leader who is a good orator - someone who at least had a chance of keeping the conservative advance at bay, instead of virtually guarantee its success.

Corbyn is supported by Momentum and Unite and his role is to take the party left and purge it of the Blairites via a disastrous election - that's the only logical explanation given the level of disunity on show. Unite can then select left wing candidates and they can push for a win in 2022. An old fashioned left wing Labour party will have appeal in Scotland and the pain of the Brexit negotiations will turn many off the Tories - Labour may not win but could form a coalition. Corbyn will probably standing down later this year or in 2018.

You're overthinking this. Changing the name on the ballot isn't going to improve a Labour candidate's chances in a GE. A Blairite or a Momentum minion still has a rose next to their name and that's what the majority see when look down the list on their ballot paper.Further to this, if a centrist Labour candidate has lost their seat to a centrist Tory, then moving further away from the centre is not going to make someone electable.

octatonic

Evilmags said:

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

May isn't exactly a personality cult though- as I see it the main thing that she has got going for her is she comes across vaguely like Thatcher did. Also she has a massively inept opposition and a very serious job that has to get done.

Ordinarily I'd say she will be a one term wonder but given how shite I've been at predicting results lately this probably means she will be PM until I either retire or die.
Maybe both.

thomasw88

octatonic said: I

Evilmags said:

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

May isn't exactly a personality cult though- as I see it the main thing that she has got going for her is she comes across vaguely like Thatcher did. Also she has a massively inept opposition and a very serious job that has to get done.

Ordinarily I'd say she will be a one term wonder but given how shite I've been at predicting results lately this probably means she will be PM until I either retire or die.
Maybe both.

Mays a disaster in waiting. The fact that her ploy of avoiding any scrutinisation during the election gets lauded by deluded Tory followers as canny is hilarious.  This country is going tits up big fecking style

ToneControl

octatonic said:

Evilmags said:

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

May isn't exactly a personality cult though- as I see it the main thing that she has got going for her is she comes across vaguely like Thatcher did. Also she has a massively inept opposition and a very serious job that has to get done.

Ordinarily I'd say she will be a one term wonder but given how shite I've been at predicting results lately this probably means she will be PM until I either retire or die.
Maybe both.

Were you here when Major was elected?
He was similar in some ways, didn't look very "leaderish"
He did very well though, maybe Brits like that?

Drew_TNBD

thomasw88 said:This country is going tits up big fecking style

Until this country has a disastrous revolution like Iran did in the 1970's, I think 'going tits up big fecking style' is overstating the case a little.

ToneControl

thomasw88 said:

Mays a disaster in waiting. The fact that her ploy of avoiding any scrutinisation during the election gets lauded by deluded Tory followers as canny is hilarious.  This country is going tits up big fecking style

in waiting? she's already PM, what change are you expecting?
much as though I would prefer a competent party from the left, I have to ask - why on earth would someone so far ahead in the polls take any risks with the election run-up? 

tits-up relative to what other countries btw? I'm feeling very privileged and fortunate living here

Evilmags

ToneControl said:

octatonic said:

Evilmags said:

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

May isn't exactly a personality cult though- as I see it the main thing that she has got going for her is she comes across vaguely like Thatcher did. Also she has a massively inept opposition and a very serious job that has to get done.

Ordinarily I'd say she will be a one term wonder but given how shite I've been at predicting results lately this probably means she will be PM until I either retire or die.
Maybe both.

Were you here when Major was elected?
He was similar in some ways, didn't look very "leaderish"
He did very well though, maybe Brits like that?

Kinnock was a damm sight more competent than Corbyn though. John Smith could actually get through the technicalities of a buget without making an arse of himself, Donald Dewer and Gordon Brown had an iron control of Scottish local politics. May has an open goal in comparison. She Sacked Osbourne, sent Gove into penitance and hardly needs Cameron´s polish and charm given the opposition. Ahe looks as secure as I´ve seen a politician since pre Iraq Blair. 

octatonic

ToneControl said:

octatonic said:

Evilmags said:

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

May isn't exactly a personality cult though- as I see it the main thing that she has got going for her is she comes across vaguely like Thatcher did. Also she has a massively inept opposition and a very serious job that has to get done.

Ordinarily I'd say she will be a one term wonder but given how shite I've been at predicting results lately this probably means she will be PM until I either retire or die.
Maybe both.

Were you here when Major was elected?
He was similar in some ways, didn't look very "leaderish"
He did very well though, maybe Brits like that?

Nope- I arrived in 2001.

ToneControl

octatonic said:

ToneControl said:

octatonic said:

Evilmags said:

Nitefly said:

Interesting that Burnham didn't want Corbyn anywhere near Manchester last night, so he went to Liverpool instead...

I'd say unsurprising. Labour are deeply fucked amd have been since people like Corbyn, McConnell and Milne took charge. People like Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn ect, while not to my liking are hardly nut jobs.  Like it or not personality is a massive factor in politics.  It is why George Osbourne and Micheal Gove will never be PM. Anyone who lived through the saga of Micheal Foot feels a sense of Dejavoo here. Kinnock, like him or not, was an effective opposition leader. Corbyn is so low grade it beggars belief. 

May isn't exactly a personality cult though- as I see it the main thing that she has got going for her is she comes across vaguely like Thatcher did. Also she has a massively inept opposition and a very serious job that has to get done.

Ordinarily I'd say she will be a one term wonder but given how shite I've been at predicting results lately this probably means she will be PM until I either retire or die.
Maybe both.

Were you here when Major was elected?
He was similar in some ways, didn't look very "leaderish"
He did very well though, maybe Brits like that?

Nope- I arrived in 2001.

Maybe we sometimes like the Martin Freeman type of leader?

Clarky

Evilmags said:

How the hell did Abbot get into Cambridge. I have never met an oxbridge graduate that incompetent. 

she went to Cambridge?
was she a bog cleaner or something?

Drew_TNBD

Can we just make Thomas Sowell king of the world? I'd follow him!

ICBM

ToneControl said:

tits-up relative to what other countries btw? I'm feeling very privileged and fortunate living here

If you feel privileged to live in a civilised country where you have no fear of really serious poverty or death due to unemployment, ill health or neglect in old age, thank Clem Attlee.

He also didn't on the face of it appear a strong leader - by all accounts he was a man of few words and mild manners - but he *was* a strong leader, because he was able to control a Labour Party of extremely strong conflicting personalities, and make them work together for the common good.

Sadly Jeremy Corbyn is no successor to him, not because his politics are wrong - Attlee was probably as left-wing despite his upper-middle-class background - but because he is a weak leader.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Emp_Fab said:

What pisses me off about Corbyn, and this has nothing to do with his policies, which I generally support, or his awkward personality, which is not his fault, is the fact that he must surely know that with him at the helm, Labour are almost certain to be anihilated on June 8th, and he will have to resign as a result.  Surely the better option - the less selfish option - would have been to make way for a younger leader who is a good orator - someone who at least had a chance of keeping the conservative advance at bay, instead of virtually guarantee its success.

Corbyn is supported by Momentum and Unite and his role is to take the party left and purge it of the Blairites via a disastrous election - that's the only logical explanation given the level of disunity on show. Unite can then select left wing candidates and they can push for a win in 2022. An old fashioned left wing Labour party will have appeal in Scotland and the pain of the Brexit negotiations will turn many off the Tories - Labour may not win but could form a coalition. Corbyn will probably standing down later this year or in 2018.

You're overthinking this. Changing the name on the ballot isn't going to improve a Labour candidate's chances in a GE. A Blairite or a Momentum minion still has a rose next to their name and that's what the majority see when look down the list on their ballot paper.Further to this, if a centrist Labour candidate has lost their seat to a centrist Tory, then moving further away from the centre is not going to make someone electable.

I don't think I am. Labour has been hijacked by the left - pop over to the Momentum website or checkout the left-wing political forums. They're really not bothered about this election as they think whoever is in power will be nobbled by Brexit. Voters are being put off by Corbyn.

If Yvette Cooper had become leader rather than Corbyn and she respected the referendum vote the polls would be tight and there wouldn't be a general election. I doubt many traditional Labour supporters would have deserted the party.

It's too late now so Corbyn will lead Labour to disaster - it's what happens next. I think Blair is right and its time for a new party.

Fretwired

:-)