Manchester Arena explosion.

Drew_TNBD

vasselmeyer said:

Assuming this is Islamic terrorism, and let's face it, the odds are good that it is, I wonder what goes through someone's mind to justify this. Do they think that Allah and the Prophet will  we waiting at the gates of Heaven to congratulate them on killing 22 mums and daughters and severely wounding hundreds of others at a  music event?

Pretty much, yes.

The 9/11 terrorists went out on a booze and pussy binge the night before, because they 'knew' all their sins would be wiped clean because of their 'glorious PR act for Islam'.

I've already done my rants on this. Nothing will change. 19 dead people, a bunch of them in all likelyhood small girls, and our public policies on this stuff will not change. People's idiotic moral relativism will not change. The 'not all' crowd will be out in full force soon, and no-one will bother to analyse the causal links between religion and terrorism and the whole thing will just continue.

I'm too shocked to get into a huge debate. I'm fucking angry.

fretmeister

octatonic said:

fretmeister said:

Steffo said:

Awful. I found myself crying when I heard about that children are involved. Whoever did this is beyond evil and need to be prevented from doing this again, WHATEVER it takes.

A screenshot of a Katie Hopkins tweet is being circulated on twitter (apparently now deleted) in which she appears to be calling for a 'final solution' this morning.

Would that approach be part of your "Whatever" it takes?

She said 'true solution' I think, rather than 'final solution', unless you are talking about a different tweet.

I've got a screen grab of a screen grab.

EricTheWeary

Only just seeing this, 22 dead including children and 59 injured. Bloody, bloody hell. 

Steffo

fretmeister said:

Steffo said:

Awful. I found myself crying when I heard about that children are involved. Whoever did this is beyond evil and need to be prevented from doing this again, WHATEVER it takes.

A screenshot of a Katie Hopkins tweet is being circulated on twitter (apparently now deleted) in which she appears to be calling for a 'final solution' this morning.

Would that approach be part of your "Whatever" it takes?

Silencing people that incite hate like her is part of the whatever.

To clarify, I don't mean "silence" in the Corleone way. They should not be given a direct channel to communicate their views, like the Daily Fail.

Teetonetal

vasselmeyer said:

Assuming this is Islamic terrorism, and let's face it, the odds are good that it is, I wonder what goes through someone's mind to justify this. Do they think that Allah and the Prophet will  we waiting at the gates of Heaven to congratulate them on killing 22 mums and daughters and severely wounding hundreds of others at a  music event?

Without wishing to derail the thread... I imagine that in part, this is justified in their heads as revenge on western politics, that has been messing with the region, dropping bombs and killing civilians in various parts of the middle east for most of my life.

No question this is an abhorrent attack on kids. I guess planned to make headlines even more dramatic and drive the hate rhetoric even further into our collective conscious. But why do we let them achieve the goal so willingly? I hate the media reporting on all of these terror attacks. This time the BBC has a nice video of the explosion. An event that has killed 22 people, live for you to watch on youtube. Last time it was the pictures of the car driving along the bridge.

This world is a fucking horror show.

underdog

My wife is in a massive panic this morning, she's from Manchester and first was worried for family and now worried about attending gigs we have coming up.

Like I pointed out to her the press are a huge part of this problem, they are helping spread the fear, last night in the UK there would have been hundreds of gigs not effected by terrorists. They need to report the facts and stop treating these horrible events like its a soap opera, it's not entertainment it's a tragedy.

Fretwired

vasselmeyer said:

Assuming this is Islamic terrorism, and let's face it, the odds are good that it is, I wonder what goes through someone's mind to justify this. Do they think that Allah and the Prophet will  we waiting at the gates of Heaven to congratulate them on killing 22 mums and daughters and severely wounding hundreds of others at a  music event?

It will probably be a local who has been radicalised. Part of that process would be exposure to the 'atrocities' committed by the west and Russia which has seen so many Muslims die - the invasion of Iraq, the bombing of Libya and Syria - the wars in Afghanistan. They see this as a holy war and if they are IS supporters they want to see a Caliphate in the Middle East which is something we reject. Whether you like it or not we are at war with IS and they are hitting back in any way they can via social media driven propaganda that radicalises people - they also have a monthly magazine with bomb making articles and tips on attacks.  I'm also sure some of these people do it for martyrdom.

Its all very sad and not something that will end anytime soon. Condolences to those who have lost loved ones.

professorben

This is a truly horrible day. 

But nothing can be done, the lessons learned from 9/11, 7/7, Valentine's Day Massacre, Westminster Attack etc etc  

WE CANT STOP THESE THINGS HAPPENING. 

Any car/lorry/van is a weapon. 
Any public gathering is a target
its not about scoring political points or military advantage. 

Its just fear. 

because its your neighbour, the guy in a quiet flat somewhere, the guy on the Internet getting indoctrinated, it's not the guys standing on the street corner screaming fire and brimstone. 

It human nature that as you become more depressed and disenfranchised with the society you belong to, you withdraw, becoming harder and harder to flag by security forces. 

Hive mind, look at how we as a forum rounded on a guy recently who made the mistake of going against the flow of the thread? 

Now ramp that up with centuries of oppression, bloodshed and outrage, mixed with religious insanity and it's not hard to see how people turn to extremes. 

How do we fight it?

We can't. 

There is no big baddie, no end of level boss to chase, no secretive Hydra to crush. 

Just a fuckwit with an internet connection and a grudge. 

Maybe we fight fear with fear?
for every attack we strike back, 10 mosques blown to fuck everytime a policeman gets stabbed, feels good to imagine it right??

maybe the SAS could execute 100 Islamic clerics everytime it happens. 

But for what? 
How does it change anything?
Violence perpetuates. 

Education and integration are the only only way to combat ignorance and segregation. 

richardhomer

underdog said:

My wife is in a massive panic this morning, she's from Manchester and first was worried for family and now worried about attending gigs we have coming up.

Like I pointed out to her the press are a huge part of this problem, they are helping spread the fear, last night in the UK there would have been hundreds of gigs not effected by terrorists. They need to report the facts and stop treating these horrible events like its a soap opera, it's not entertainment it's a tragedy.

Forgive me - but in what way are the press a huge part of the problem? The media has - quite rightly - reported this atrocity.

I live in Manchester and attend gigs all over the city - seriously - would anyone attending that kind of event in any venue not have concerns about going after this?

I woke my 15 year old son this morning, thankful he was safe and well in his bed. It may well be the case this morning that some of his school mates have been killed or injured.

Why do people have to scapegoat the media? We all need to face up to the truth and reality of what's happened. And what's happened is fucking outrageous....

Heartfeltdawn

Teetonetal said:

Without wishing to derail the thread... I imagine that in part, this is justified in their heads as revenge on western politics, that has been messing with the region, dropping bombs and killing civilians in various parts of the middle east for most of my life.

No question this is an abhorrent attack on kids. I guess planned to make headlines even more dramatic and drive the hate rhetoric even further into our collective conscious. But why do we let them achieve the goal so willingly? I hate the media reporting on all of these terror attacks. This time the BBC has a nice video of the explosion. An event that has killed 22 people, live for you to watch on youtube. Last time it was the pictures of the car driving along the bridge.

This world is a fucking horror show.

 You mention the media death porn when events happen in this country. With the Westminster attack, many people felt similar on this forum and elsewhere. 

We've seen shit from two Iraq wars, Afghanistan, and Syria that go way beyond anything seen thus far with Westminster and Manchester. We've all seen the images from missile and gunship cameras, witnessed small children covered in bomb dust and blood, and all the rest. It seems odd to me that events here at home get so much media coverage dislike yet it's the events overseas that are given wall to wall coverage that are the nucleus of Islamic terrorism and the objections are far fewer.

jonnyburgo

So glad that my daughter didn't ask to go as she is a big fan as I know we would have buckled and splashed the cash on tickets. Fucking vermin. 

Fretwired

professorben said:

Education and integration are the only only way to combat ignorance and segregation. 

Stop bombing people in Iraq and Syria, have a ceasefire, and try and find a peaceful solution might be a way to stop attacks in the west and final a peaceful solution.

antifash

octatonic said:

fretmeister said:

Steffo said:

Awful. I found myself crying when I heard about that children are involved. Whoever did this is beyond evil and need to be prevented from doing this again, WHATEVER it takes.

A screenshot of a Katie Hopkins tweet is being circulated on twitter (apparently now deleted) in which she appears to be calling for a 'final solution' this morning.

Would that approach be part of your "Whatever" it takes?

She said 'true solution' I think, rather than 'final solution', unless you are talking about a different tweet.

in one hawn Katie Hopkins deletes a tweet as a swastika armband slides doon her arm whilst the other shaves off her moustache's edges pic.twitter.com/1FjQnxlOC2

— Butt Sea (@Butsay_)

May 23, 2017

TheBlueWolf

Cowardice knows no depths. What a horrendous thing to do

Teetonetal

Heartfeltdawn said:

Teetonetal said:

Without wishing to derail the thread... I imagine that in part, this is justified in their heads as revenge on western politics, that has been messing with the region, dropping bombs and killing civilians in various parts of the middle east for most of my life.

No question this is an abhorrent attack on kids. I guess planned to make headlines even more dramatic and drive the hate rhetoric even further into our collective conscious. But why do we let them achieve the goal so willingly? I hate the media reporting on all of these terror attacks. This time the BBC has a nice video of the explosion. An event that has killed 22 people, live for you to watch on youtube. Last time it was the pictures of the car driving along the bridge.

This world is a fucking horror show.

 You mention the media death porn when events happen in this country. With the Westminster attack, many people felt similar on this forum and elsewhere. 

We've seen shit from two Iraq wars, Afghanistan, and Syria that go way beyond anything seen thus far with Westminster and Manchester. We've all seen the images from missile and gunship cameras, witnessed small children covered in bomb dust and blood, and all the rest. It seems odd to me that events here at home get so much media coverage dislike yet it's the events overseas that are given wall to wall coverage that are the nucleus of Islamic terrorism and the objections are far fewer.

Can't disagree. Reporting in generally seem to be a race to the bottom of the barrel.

underdog

richardhomer said:

underdog said:

My wife is in a massive panic this morning, she's from Manchester and first was worried for family and now worried about attending gigs we have coming up.

Like I pointed out to her the press are a huge part of this problem, they are helping spread the fear, last night in the UK there would have been hundreds of gigs not effected by terrorists. They need to report the facts and stop treating these horrible events like its a soap opera, it's not entertainment it's a tragedy.

Forgive me - but in what way are the press a huge part of the problem? The media has - quite rightly - reported this atrocity.

I live in Manchester and attend gigs all over the city - seriously - would anyone attending that kind of event in any venue not have concerns about going after this?

I woke my 15 year old son this morning, thankful he was safe and well in his bed. It may well be the case this morning that some of his school mates have been killed or injured.

Why do people have to scapegoat the media? We all need to face up to the truth and reality of what's happened. And what's happened is fucking outrageous....

Do you think a national news company showing footage of the moment a bomb killed children is needed? It's sensationalism, it's to get clicks on web sites, no respect for victims or their families.

Rocker

Woke up to this terrible news. Words fail me. RIP to the victims. My prayers to the families. Sad sad day.

professorben

professorben said:

This is a truly horrible day. 

But nothing can be done, the lessons learned from 9/11, 7/7, Valentine's Day Massacre, Westminster Attack etc etc  

WE CANT STOP THESE THINGS HAPPENING. 

Any car/lorry/van is a weapon. 
Any public gathering is a target
its not about scoring political points or military advantage. 

Its just fear. 

because its your neighbour, the guy in a quiet flat somewhere, the guy on the Internet getting indoctrinated, it's not the guys standing on the street corner screaming fire and brimstone. 

It human nature that as you become more depressed and disenfranchised with the society you belong to, you withdraw, becoming harder and harder to flag by security forces. 

Hive mind, look at how we as a forum rounded on a guy recently who made the mistake of going against the flow of the thread? 

Now ramp that up with centuries of oppression, bloodshed and outrage, mixed with religious insanity and it's not hard to see how people turn to extremes. 

How do we fight it?

We can't. 

There is no big baddie, no end of level boss to chase, no secretive Hydra to crush. 

Just a fuckwit with an internet connection and a grudge. 

Maybe we fight fear with fear?
for every attack we strike back, 10 mosques blown to fuck everytime a policeman gets stabbed, feels good to imagine it right??

maybe the SAS could execute 100 Islamic clerics everytime it happens. 

But for what? 
How does it change anything?
Violence perpetuates. 

Education and integration are the only only way to combat ignorance and segregation. 

Really? A LOL??

boogieman

Terrible news, made me feel numb when I saw it. 

I dont object to news coverage of the events per se, but why do we need hours of programming, endless repeats of mobile footage and lots of conjecture on the few facts available? Report the facts, move on. The BBC are getting to be the worst offenders here. 

octatonic

boogieman said:

Terrible news, made me feel numb when I saw it. 

I dont object to news coverage of the events per se, but why do we need hours of programming, endless repeats of mobile footage and lots of conjecture on the few facts available? Report the facts, move on. The BBC are getting to be the worst offenders here. 

I've had to turn the news off this morning.
I usually have it running most of the day when in the workshop but it is just too much.