Cant say fairer than these sentiments from Andertons.

Sporky

At the risk of anti-one-true-scotsman-ning it, I think the latter is just a better quality of trolling.

Trolling, I'd say, is posting specifically with the intention of provoking a negative response.

[insert abusive comments to taste]

ThePrettyDamned

Drew_TNBD said:

There is a huge lack of understanding about what trolling actually is.

Swearing and arguing in a comments section is not trolling. It's just douche behaviour and we're all capable of it.

Troll is basically setting up logical satirical traps for people and stringing them along for as long as possible. Think DaLefty as an example.

I rather miss dalefty. 

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

At the risk of anti-one-true-scotsman-ning it, I think the latter is just a better quality of trolling.

Trolling, I'd say, is posting specifically with the intention of provoking a negative response.

[insert abusive comments to taste]

Hmmm not necessarily. Sometimes it's to get someone to hang themselves by their own rope. It's not always negative.

Roland

Emp_Fab said:

It's all just publicity seeking attention.  As has been said already - just disable the comments, problem solved.  But that would do nothing for keeping everyone, including us, talking about Andertons.

Gassage said:

He is not understanding that negative trolling also drives massive traffic and that's a fact ... I find it amusing that there's such insecurity there that he's posted about it.

Gassage said:

Lastly, as the modmins would already know, if you tell people to stop, then regular trolls will try their darndest to find where the line is and comment as close to it as poss on purpose, causing more work in moderation.

Drew_TNBD said:

There is a huge lack of understanding about what trolling actually is ... setting up logical satirical traps for people and stringing them along for as long as possible. 

dindude said:

I agree with the sentiment but it was done with a sense of frustration, anger even, which came across, both in Lee's approach and the title of the vid.

I think a more light hearted "rise-above-it" approach, albeit with the same results of deleting comments, would have been better. If Lee has said something like "I don't really care what alias99 thinks of Rob's mother so please don't be offended if I delete your comment" approach.

From which I conclude that:

a) Lee doesn't look at internet business in the same way as some of us do. (Before comments start I'm saying "different" not right or wrong.) On this forum we are pretty explicit about moderation activity, and have threads and posts about it. Lee is more comfortable with the video approach. Trolling will increase his traffic, but not necessarily with the type of traffic he wants.

b) Some people gets their kicks from trolling and will continue, by signing up under a different name and email, after having their account closed. Lee does not have the patience, and doesn't want to expend the resources, to manage trolling by any other method than "one stroke and you're out".

fftc

RocknRollDave said:

 "Comments below please (NB abusive, sexist, homophobic or anti-lefthandedness posts will be deleted and users blocked, so please don't bother!)"

Has lefthandedness become a protected characteristic now? wtf!

When will it end.

Philly_Q

Funkfingers said:

TTony said:

Real musicians support others.

Tricky. Not everyone who owns a musical instrument deserves to be described as a musician. Some people who own musical instruments do things that are unintentionally funny. It is difficult not to laugh. This is not necessarily the same as bullying. Some human endeavours are plainly ludicrous. It should not be a crime to say so.

I sort of agree, though perhaps from a different perspective.  Saying we're all musicians and "real" musicians should support one another, whether we're struggling beginners or fleet-fingered maestros, is all very nice in an ideal-world, hullo-clouds-hullo-sky kind of way, but I'm not sure it's remotely true.

I own a lot of guitars and I've been "playing" 35+ years, but am I a musician, real or otherwise?  Am I fuck.  And in the unlikely event that Paul Gilbert goes on YouTube comments and says "dude you need to work on your sweep picking it fucking sucks", does he stop being a real musician?  I don't think so.

Being a real musician and being an arsehole are probably not mutually exclusive.

As for the rest of the clip, it was interesting enough to keep me watching for 6 minutes without fast forwarding, but I'm not sure it serves any great purpose.  Red-carding abusive commenters?  OK from the point of view that they don't want a "family audience" reading offensive stuff, but it's a lot of hassle for someone to moderate it.  And do you silence someone who maybe complains about the price or condition of an item, without being abusive, just because you don't like what they've said?

Jimbro66

I could really sense the frustration, and irritation, lying behind what he had to say. Lee Anderton is a really nice guy and what he has achieved with Andertons is really quite remarkable. And,yes, the videos do promote his business but they are also very informative for those who want to learn, particularly those new to playing. More experienced players can decide for themselves which of the presenters they are happy to watch. I generally don't watch Chappers because his playing style is not one I enjoy but I do respect him as a very capable musician and it would never occur to me to be insulting about him. Why would I?

The people doing the trolling (call it what you want) are just pretty sad human beings who hide behind a keyboard and username to be insulting and abusive. They are generally guys who would never have the guts to say those things to someone's face. This has nothing to do with banter. It's got completely out of hand on You Tube, social media and most forums. Yes, we have some here too who are brave in their anonimity. I suspect that blocking the trolls is like trying to hold back the tide but it has to be addressed -  in the same way that the mods have had to impose rules here. So, good luck to Lee. I hope his plea and warning has some effect and that folk can enjoy and comment on his videos without risk of bullying.

Sporky

Drew_TNBD said:

Sporky said:

At the risk of anti-one-true-scotsman-ning it, I think the latter is just a better quality of trolling.

Trolling, I'd say, is posting specifically with the intention of provoking a negative response.

[insert abusive comments to taste]

Hmmm not necessarily. Sometimes it's to get someone to hang themselves by their own rope. It's not always negative.

That's an interesting thought. I'd not considered that sort of thing to be trolling - might just be a question of definitions, mind.

DavidRees

well said Lee ...

bingefeller

you should also ask yourself if the language you Anderton-people are using in recent months triggers some viewers. You harvest what you sow.

LaCathedrale_UK

bingefeller said:

you should also ask yourself if the language you Anderton-people are using in recent months triggers some viewers. You harvest what you sow.

such as? 

bingefeller

WilliamAyerst said:

bingefeller said:

you should also ask yourself if the language you Anderton-people are using in recent months triggers some viewers. You harvest what you sow.

such as? 

I don't know, I just copied that comment from the comments section on Youtube.  Like a comment-ception.  

Actually, reading through the comments on the video is very interesting, such as the one I cut and past there.  A lot of people make some good points.  

Making a video with the title "Trolls Aren't Real Musicians - They're Just Dicks" is kind of inflammatory.  It will trigger people and it's just inviting people to troll them even more, plus Andertons have shown they get wound up by it enough to make a video.  

Andertons are a business and, from what I remember, they make more money via Youtube than Chappers does and videos like this just help the cash to flow in.  People will make video responses as they attempt to gain views from the video, and people, who maybe haven't seen the original Andertons video will watch it and more money for Andertons.   It's a smart move they've played.  

RocknRollDave

fftc said:

RocknRollDave said:

 "Comments below please (NB abusive, sexist, homophobic or anti-lefthandedness posts will be deleted and users blocked, so please don't bother!)"

Has lefthandedness become a protected characteristic now? wtf!

When will it end.

Tuesday 

digitalscream

Roland said:

a) Lee doesn't look at internet business in the same way as some of us do. (Before comments start I'm saying "different" not right or wrong.) On this forum we are pretty explicit about moderation activity, and have threads and posts about it. Lee is more comfortable with the video approach. Trolling will increase his traffic, but not necessarily with the type of traffic he wants.

This is exactly it - for me, the video is simply giving everyone warning of what's about to happen, to head off the obvious "Oh, I see...Andertons don't want customers" bullshit that the trolls and abusers will inevitably spew out.

The other point, about traffic, is that the Andertons channel is no longer in a position where they have to beg for scraps of traffic from Rob's channel; it's a "thing" in its own right, and attracts people all on its own. To be honest, most of the people he's talking about (let's not argue over the definition of "troll" here, we all know the kind of folk he's aiming the video at) are actually part of the halo effect of the hate that Rob gets on his channel, a hangover from the days when the Rob & Lee show was the only thing going on with their channel.

RandallFlagg

At 48K views already, isn't he making momey from Youtube with this video? Isn't it all about the green at the end of the day for these Youtubers?

digitalscream

RandallFlagg said:

At 48K views already, isn't he making momey from Youtube with this video? Isn't it all about the green at the end of the day for these Youtubers?

LOL. 48k views won't even cover the bill for milk and coffee at Andertons :P

FelineGuitars

digitalscream said:

RandallFlagg said:

At 48K views already, isn't he making momey from Youtube with this video? Isn't it all about the green at the end of the day for these Youtubers?

LOL. 48k views won't even cover the bill for milk and coffee at Andertons :P

Not with the number of mugs that Lee breaks during a single video (the overuse of that sound effect is my only bugbear with their videos)

Drew_TNBD

Worth remembering that Lee got shitty when I described Andertons as a box shifting company on here before. He didn't like that, even though it's the truth.

I've had Andertons try and stiff me out of accessories like footswitches before, that I rightfully should have received. They fixed it in the end, but honestly they should focus on customer satisfaction and step away from the internet culture wars.

ourmaninthenorth

Drew_TNBD said:

Worth remembering that Lee got shitty when I described Andertons as a box shifting company on here before. He didn't like that, even though it's the truth.

I've had Andertons try and stiff me out of accessories like footswitches before, that I rightfully should have received. They fixed it in the end, but honestly they should focus on customer satisfaction and step away from the internet culture wars.

I think the whole thing is a very small storm in a very small teacup. Box shifters don't form my opinions either. When I want Anderton's opinion on anything, I'll give it to them. 

Next. 

goldtop

Seems that the biggest "banterers" on this forum are the ones who whining loudest about what Andertons have done. Hmm...