Cant say fairer than these sentiments from Andertons.

goldtop

RandallFlagg said:

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

The 'forum' part of Youtube is shite though. Whoever reads through comments on a Youtube video?, it's like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic.

If Andertons want to spend time censoring Youtube then that's up to them, it would be easier to just disable comments, problem solved, and start his own Andertons forum and employ some moderators, or buy a section on The Fretboard dedicated to Andertons. Rob Chapman has his own forum, I don't go there much as it seems to be inhabited by shorts wearing, camper van driving, long hair surfer types who call each other 'dude' and play widdly widdly metal on guitars I typically hate the style of.

Wrong. The comments section is a way for Anderton's customers/visitors to interact and feel more involved with the people involved in the company, hear the music they make and some of the tones they like. There are people who lurk - many not registered with YT - but don't comment, too. (Are you new to the Internet?)

That may just make Lee et al happy (which is fine by itself) but I suspect customer involvement has a trickle-through effect on the bottom line.

Is it so bad to let obnoxious people know where they're not welcome? So much whining here!

fftc

RMJ said:

How many abusive comments does the channel get that aren't levelled at Mr Chapman?  I dont generally read comments on YT

I don't think the problem comments are the ones that are aimed at Rob, or Lee for that matter. I'm sure it's water off a ducks back for them.
The problem comments come from the interaction between commenters. Someone posts something that could be moderately controversial and is attacked most unreasonably for it. They respond likewise and before you know it the most horrible things are being suggested as suitable punishment for having an opinion. That might not be much of an issue for a grown man, but when it's a 14 year old kid it's a bit different. I think that kind of behaviour is what Lee is taking aim at. And rightly so IMHO. There is no need for it.

RandallFlagg

goldtop said:

RandallFlagg said:

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

The 'forum' part of Youtube is shite though. Whoever reads through comments on a Youtube video?, it's like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic.

If Andertons want to spend time censoring Youtube then that's up to them, it would be easier to just disable comments, problem solved, and start his own Andertons forum and employ some moderators, or buy a section on The Fretboard dedicated to Andertons. Rob Chapman has his own forum, I don't go there much as it seems to be inhabited by shorts wearing, camper van driving, long hair surfer types who call each other 'dude' and play widdly widdly metal on guitars I typically hate the style of.

Wrong. The comments section is a way for Anderton's customers/visitors to interact and feel more involved with the people involved in the company, hear the music they make and some of the tones they like. There are people who lurk - many not registered with YT - but don't comment, too. (Are you new to the Internet?)

That may just make Lee et al happy (which is fine by itself) but I suspect customer involvement has a trickle-through effect on the bottom line.

Is it so bad to let obnoxious people know where they're not welcome? So much whining here!

No, I'm not new to the internet but thanks for the condescending comment.

holnrew

RandallFlagg said:

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

The 'forum' part of Youtube is shite though. Whoever reads through comments on a Youtube video?, it's like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic.

If Andertons want to spend time censoring Youtube then that's up to them, it would be easier to just disable comments, problem solved, and start his own Andertons forum and employ some moderators, or buy a section on The Fretboard dedicated to Andertons. Rob Chapman has his own forum, I don't go there much as it seems to be inhabited by shorts wearing, camper van driving, long hair surfer types who call each other 'dude' and play widdly widdly metal on guitars I typically hate the style of.

I read the comments as I watch the video. There's a lot more funny or interesting comments than mean ones. And some channels interact too.

Bork

Comments not only increase exposure to brand directly like conventional advertising but validation by other commenters is addictive, through fear of missing out, and generates  return visits to the channel. It has a snowball effect and builds value in the brand which creates loyalty which helps stabilises their bottom line.  

Plus it helps enormously that they got into it 10 years ago, before YouTube marketing went nuts as 'A Thing' and it got ultra competitive for clicks.  It took them years to become an overnight sensation.

Personally I think they've done the right thing. They've got values and have nailed their colours to the mast. So much marketing these days to millenials is about values and authenticity.  A large chunk of their market will be millenial beginners, as it has been for most music retailers, and Lee wants to distance the Andertons brand from any dick related associations.  

It's good business sense for a family store.

goldtop

RandallFlagg said:

goldtop said:

RandallFlagg said:

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

The 'forum' part of Youtube is shite though. Whoever reads through comments on a Youtube video?, it's like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic.

If Andertons want to spend time censoring Youtube then that's up to them, it would be easier to just disable comments, problem solved, and start his own Andertons forum and employ some moderators, or buy a section on The Fretboard dedicated to Andertons. Rob Chapman has his own forum, I don't go there much as it seems to be inhabited by shorts wearing, camper van driving, long hair surfer types who call each other 'dude' and play widdly widdly metal on guitars I typically hate the style of.

Wrong. The comments section is a way for Anderton's customers/visitors to interact and feel more involved with the people involved in the company, hear the music they make and some of the tones they like. There are people who lurk - many not registered with YT - but don't comment, too. (Are you new to the Internet?)

That may just make Lee et al happy (which is fine by itself) but I suspect customer involvement has a trickle-through effect on the bottom line.

Is it so bad to let obnoxious people know where they're not welcome? So much whining here!

No, I'm not new to the internet but thanks for the condescending comment.

I'll try to engage with you because it is relevant to Anderton's problem.

Your post started with look-at-me sweary whining. Free speech, right, like YT comments. Now, over the years, theFB has developed this sort of edgy banter into something of a comedic debating style. A few people here try to one-up each other, getting closer and closer to that "being a dick" thing. (Every now and then, the question about why so few female guitarists hang around comes up, and IMHO this bantery-lads attitude definitely plays a part; another parallel with Anderton's problem.)

Aside from being tedious (to me, maybe not to others), the problem is that when you eventually try to make a point, you've worked yourself up so much that you talk nonsense: "like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic".

I've found plenty of useful stuff in YT comments, but it's hard work because of trolls trying to push someone's buttons. I bet I'm not alone in that.

DiscoStu

Poor Dick, getting banned wherever he goes. No wonder he's always so miserablou.

http://historythings.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/dick_dale_ian_witlen.jpg

RandallFlagg

goldtop said:

RandallFlagg said:

goldtop said:

RandallFlagg said:

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

The 'forum' part of Youtube is shite though. Whoever reads through comments on a Youtube video?, it's like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic.

If Andertons want to spend time censoring Youtube then that's up to them, it would be easier to just disable comments, problem solved, and start his own Andertons forum and employ some moderators, or buy a section on The Fretboard dedicated to Andertons. Rob Chapman has his own forum, I don't go there much as it seems to be inhabited by shorts wearing, camper van driving, long hair surfer types who call each other 'dude' and play widdly widdly metal on guitars I typically hate the style of.

Wrong. The comments section is a way for Anderton's customers/visitors to interact and feel more involved with the people involved in the company, hear the music they make and some of the tones they like. There are people who lurk - many not registered with YT - but don't comment, too. (Are you new to the Internet?)

That may just make Lee et al happy (which is fine by itself) but I suspect customer involvement has a trickle-through effect on the bottom line.

Is it so bad to let obnoxious people know where they're not welcome? So much whining here!

No, I'm not new to the internet but thanks for the condescending comment.

I'll try to engage with you because it is relevant to Anderton's problem.

Your post started with look-at-me sweary whining. Free speech, right, like YT comments. Now, over the years, theFB has developed this sort of edgy banter into something of a comedic debating style. A few people here try to one-up each other, getting closer and closer to that "being a dick" thing. (Every now and then, the question about why so few female guitarists hang around comes up, and IMHO this bantery-lads attitude definitely plays a part; another parallel with Anderton's problem.)

Aside from being tedious (to me, maybe not to others), the problem is that when you eventually try to make a point, you've worked yourself up so much that you talk nonsense: "like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic".

I've found plenty of useful stuff in YT comments, but it's hard work because of trolls trying to push someone's buttons. I bet I'm not alone in that.

I though the 'scraping you cock' comment was quite good. Oh well, not all people have a sense of humour. I like edgy banter and a comedic debating style, but then again I am a dick, obviously. I appear to be in good company.

Oh, and you don't need to bother trying to 'engage' with me, I'm really not worth it. 

simonk

We should order a pallet of these:

guitarfishbay

goldtop said:

(Every now and then, the question about why so few female guitarists hang around comes up, and IMHO this bantery-lads attitude definitely plays a part; another parallel with Anderton's problem.)

There are way bigger trolls and actual misogynist posters on every major social media outlet. If that was the primary reason to not engage there wouldn't be women on social media at all.

I'm all for more members, I really don't care about their gender, they don't have to declare it and don't see why it matters on a forum about music and musical equipment. The people that do must want to treat non males differently, I can't think of any other reason. 

TimmyO

His business, his channel, his choice.

There are some really good points made in this thread, but on balance I applaud the move.

And if it raises some money for an anti-bullying charity, that's a bonus too. 

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

goldtop said:

(Every now and then, the question about why so few female guitarists hang around comes up, and IMHO this bantery-lads attitude definitely plays a part; another parallel with Anderton's problem.)

There are way bigger trolls and actual misogynist posters on every major social media outlet. If that was the primary reason to not engage there wouldn't be women on social media at all.

I'm all for more members, I really don't care about their gender, they don't have to declare it and don't see why it matters on a forum about music and musical equipment. The people that do must want to treat non males differently, I can't think of any other reason. 

Old people want to protect the girlies from the big bad wolfies coz that's how they were raised. We were raised to believe in equality, so our kneejerk protection instincts are wired differently.

chillidoggy

simonk said:

We should order a pallet of these:

Could be misread, though.

I mean, is it "Anderton's don't be a dick", or "Anderton's. Don't be a dick"?

tone1

chillidoggy said:

simonk said:

We should order a pallet of these:

Could be misread, though.

I mean, is it "Anderton's don't be a dick", or "Anderton's. Don't be a dick"?

Yep, reminds me of the book 'Eats shoots and leaves' 

celentium

Andertons release video saying "don't be a knob".

Knobs moan about the right to be a knob.

Drew_TNBD

Anyone remember that Korg Miku pedal review that they did? They were perfectly happy with the edge lord borderline racism at that point.

Philtre

celentium said:

Andertons release video saying "don't be a knob".

Knobs moan about the right to be a knob.

Yep.

TimmyO

Drew_TNBD said:

Anyone remember that Korg Miku pedal review that they did? They were perfectly happy with the edge lord borderline racism at that point.

Good point actually.

Hopefully now having had a bit of a think about things they'll be able to see that for what it is too.

ThePrettyDamned

Drew_TNBD said:

Anyone remember that Korg Miku pedal review that they did? They were perfectly happy with the edge lord borderline racism at that point.

That was incredibly cringey. 

I really want a big hit to be written with that pedal. 

Three-ColourSunburst

To be honest, that video made me feel very uncomfortable.  It reminds me of the way the Guardian newspaper gets its staff to delete any comments that they feel are not sufficiently goodthinkful, seemingly on the grounds that they believe that criticism of any form is by definition some sort of 'hate crime'. Instantly banning such posters is again is pretty much what the Guardian does in its comment section. Sure, those who post personal abuse, racist comments and so on deserve to be labelled 'dicks', but is seems that what has rattled their cage of late is simply the number of people agreeing with comments such as

"Chapman needs to learn to play slowly and with feeling rather than playing all of those dodgy flurries that amount to noise pollution."

I have seen plenty of much more personal abuse directed at other presenters on YouTube, but those presenters generally seem to be happy to leave the comments up so the world can see what 'dicks' the posters are, maybe alongside a quick rebuttal, which I think is a far healthier attitude.

This very much seems like just another example of the tendency for people to want to live in their own personal 'safespace' / echo chamber.