Cant say fairer than these sentiments from Andertons.

RandallFlagg

FelineGuitars said:

digitalscream said:

RandallFlagg said:

At 48K views already, isn't he making momey from Youtube with this video? Isn't it all about the green at the end of the day for these Youtubers?

LOL. 48k views won't even cover the bill for milk and coffee at Andertons :P

Not with the number of mugs that Lee breaks during a single video (the overuse of that sound effect is my only bugbear with their videos)

I guess, but as part of the 4 millions views a month it does and they must be getting deals or discounts from vendors for product placement on the Andertons channel. What manufacturer wouldn't want a slice of 4M views a month advertising?

chillidoggy

I haven't watched the YouTube vid.

Emp_Fab

digitalscream said:

A perfect example of this is the suggestion that they should disable comments - if they did that, their view count would drop by 20-40%. Conclusion: people on here don't really know how YouTube works

And ?  If the comments are bad, then that 20-40% is the fee for getting rid of them.  A fee Lee Anderton doesn't want to pay.  He wants the problem solved for free by appealing to the better nature of YouTube commenters.  That's like trying to evade a pack of wolves by rubbing meat all over yourself and shouting at them.

darthed1981

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

This place is toxic.

Now I've got this stick in my head again

Its not the song that sticks in my head when I see that video...off to you tube to find the proper version, that sounds like me playing guitar!

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

digitalscream said:

A perfect example of this is the suggestion that they should disable comments - if they did that, their view count would drop by 20-40%. Conclusion: people on here don't really know how YouTube works

And ?  If the comments are bad, then that 20-40% is the fee for getting rid of them.  A fee Lee Anderton doesn't want to pay.  He wants the problem solved for free by appealing to the better nature of YouTube commenters.  That's like trying to evade a pack of wolves by rubbing meat all over yourself and shouting at them.

By the same token, I guess we don't need moderators any more

Seriously, it's his channel. He's running it in a way that doesn't seriously impact views (quite the opposite, in fact, given the spike in subscribers). Or are you saying he should ignore that option which is beneficial to his channel in favour of letting the abuse continue or sacrificing channel performance as some sort of moral tax for freedom of expression? Until this video, you weren't even aware that the comments section had any discourse going on at all, so that's a bit of an odd position to take!

Drew_TNBD

simonk said:

Drew_TNBD said:

This place is toxic.

Is it the place or some of the clientele?

It's the place. We've got a member of the moderation team who has no issue with making the kind of abusive comments that Andertons are talking about. We've got a set of rules that are not enforced. There is a gendered slur in one of them.

It's this place. Us knobheads are just acting within the parameters that the mummies and daddies have setup.

RMJ

How many abusive comments does the channel get that aren't levelled at Mr Chapman?  I dont generally read comments on YT

Fretwired

Bucket said:

Fretwired said:

They have to grow a pair. This is how the real online world works - it's nasty, but they do it as it makes money. Stick your head over the parapet and people will shoot at you. I suspect some of those posting comments work for the competition or are jealous of Lee and Rob's success. I have a few clients who use YouTube - they don't get much abuse - more people punting Russian brides and tat - but they pay an agency to clean things up.

If I were Lee I wouldn't have posted that video - I would have quietly cleaned up the comments section and blocked people.  I think he'll regret posting it.

I would normally agree, but I'm not sure making it quite THAT personal is really in order (regarding the above-mentioned Andertons thread). Really is beyond the limits of what a content provider should reasonably expect in terms of negative reaction, if you ask me.

I have only heard about the thread, I don't recall seeing it - must have passed me by, because I tend to skip past a lot of threads on the subforums, but hearing about it makes me pretty uneasy. The fact that this place, which I usually find is full of very helpful, friendly, interesting and funny people, can have such a sadistic, abusive underbelly to it that really goes far beyond "banter" and certainly a long way beyond considered debate and discussion, is a bit worrying. From my perspective, it's especially so because I'm trying to build a career in music and am trying to increase and improve my online presence, and I'd really rather not be associated with a community that is widely known for that sort of behaviour...

But get some perspective. I didn't see it, but I bet the abuse came from just a few people. It was closed down - it's gone. It will be forgotten - there's so much of it about.. Look at Trump or May. Now what they get is real abuse every day.

We should start a how wonderful Anderton's is thread .. they are my go to store for most things.

goldtop

Really not sure how closing their videos to all comments would have been better.

Emp_Fab said:

digitalscream said:

A perfect example of this is the suggestion that they should disable comments - if they did that, their view count would drop by 20-40%. Conclusion: people on here don't really know how YouTube works

And ?  If the comments are bad, then that 20-40% is the fee for getting rid of them.  A fee Lee Anderton doesn't want to pay.  He wants the problem solved for free by appealing to the better nature of YouTube commenters. 

Rubbish. It's not free because he has to pay someone to police his comments section and block the bullies. The more subscribers he has, the more expensive that job becomes. But the result for him is that his business' YT presence is a safer space for employees and visitors.

"That's like trying to evade a pack of wolves by rubbing meat all over yourself and shouting at them." Well, yes, if you follow that analogy with "Then using a sniper to pick off the attackers." It's not perfect, and a determined troll could make life difficult, but most will be mean somewhere else.

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

Funkfingers said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

There was an incident with them on here? How'd I miss that?!

I missed that too.

Any chance of a quick summary or is the board forbidden to mention anything about this topic for fear of something similar happening again?

Andertons staff were on here and being really quite helpful in resolving a few issues for people and the relationship was developing nicely (as it did with GAK and Guitar Guitar). Then, in a thread about one of Rob & Lee's videos, somebody made abusive comments about Rob's wife, then someone else piled in about Lee's wife, and pretty soon his kid and - I believe - his dog were targets too. There were a number of people guilty of it and it got really quite nasty, so I went to him to apologise on behalf of the community over the whole thing to try to smooth things over. He accepted the apology (he'd read the threads in question), but nobody from Andertons has been seen on here since.

It's just occurred to me...we haven't seen anyone from GAK since around then either, and I think the same can be said for GG.

They have to grow a pair. This is how the real online world works - it's nasty, but they do it as it makes money. Stick your head over the parapet and people will shoot at you. I suspect some of those posting comments work for the competition or are jealous of Lee and Rob's success. I have a few clients who use YouTube - they don't get much abuse - more people punting Russian brides and tat - but they pay an agency to clean things up.

If I were Lee I wouldn't have posted that video - I would have quietly cleaned up the comments section and blocked people.  I think he'll regret posting it.

I presume you're not suggesting that we should've allowed those comments on here to stand...?

I'm clearly talking about YouTube - Lee wouldn't be able to clean up comments on here would he... ;-) I didn't see the thread in question, but assumed you acted in the best interests of the forum as well as Lee and his family..

If I were Lee I'd outsource managing comments - there are automated tools and techniques. It's not that expensive.

guitarfishbay

Fretwired said:

Bucket said:

I have only heard about the thread, I don't recall seeing it - must have passed me by, because I tend to skip past a lot of threads on the subforums, but hearing about it makes me pretty uneasy. The fact that this place, which I usually find is full of very helpful, friendly, interesting and funny people, can have such a sadistic, abusive underbelly to it that really goes far beyond "banter" and certainly a long way beyond considered debate and discussion, is a bit worrying. From my perspective, it's especially so because I'm trying to build a career in music and am trying to increase and improve my online presence, and I'd really rather not be associated with a community that is widely known for that sort of behaviour...

But get some perspective. I didn't see it, but I bet the abuse came from just a few people. It was closed down - it's gone. It will be forgotten - there's so much of it about.. Look at Trump or May. Now what they get is real abuse every day.

Thing is, you don't have to dig especially deep to find a bad apple in pretty much any community, online or in real life (remember trolls are people too).

You either take the stance that "my actions speak for themselves" and don't be a dick therefore most people won't think you're a dick (can't win them all!). Or "my associates actions speak for me" - and in online terms that pretty much means being a hermit because there's not really a 100% pure good 100% of the time community anywhere.

There are a far greater number of abusive trolls on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube and you can't really individually change that or their opinions. If you really care about how you're perceived then just don't post anything that could conceivably upset anyone.

Emp_Fab

Drew_TNBD said:

It's the place. We've got a member of the moderation team who has no issue with making the kind of abusive comments that Andertons are talking about. We've got a set of rules that are not enforced. There is a gendered slur in one of them.

It's this place. Us knobheads are just acting within the parameters that the mummies and daddies have setup.

I'm assuming you are referring to me, in an oblique manner?  That's a bit rich coming from a bloke who holds Forum Olympic Gold for being coolered multiple times for grossly abusive comments! 

As for Andertons, there's no point in overanalysing it.  The bottom line is that they have a YouTube channel to promote their business and some people are leaving nasty comments.  It's YouTube - the world's biggest repository of nasty comments.  Either edit them out, switch them off completely or STFU about it.  Whining about it in a video is utterly futile.

Fretwired

guitarfishbay said:

If you really care about how you're perceived then just don't post anything that could conceivably upset anyone.

But that's not always possible. Take the Brexit threads ... I can say X and others say Z and people get upset. I think there's a difference between having a robust debate and personal abuse. In the case of the Anderton's videos it's fine to criticise the content  if you think they missed a trick - however, there's no excuse for personal abuse and threats. I actually got threatened in a Brexit thread ..

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

Drew_TNBD said:

It's the place. We've got a member of the moderation team who has no issue with making the kind of abusive comments that Andertons are talking about. We've got a set of rules that are not enforced. There is a gendered slur in one of them.

It's this place. Us knobheads are just acting within the parameters that the mummies and daddies have setup.

I'm assuming you are referring to me, in an oblique manner?  That's a bit rich coming from a bloke who holds Forum Olympic Gold for being coolered multiple times for grossly abusive comments! 

I don't think I've ever made any grossly abusive comments. Everything I have said has been good natured fun-times bantah. Looking forward to my next coolering.

Drew_TNBD

Fretwired said:

I actually got threatened in a Brexit thread .. 

Shut up before I punch your dick off.

guitarfishbay

Fretwired said:

guitarfishbay said:

If you really care about how you're perceived then just don't post anything that could conceivably upset anyone.

But that's not always possible. Take the Brexit threads ... I can say X and others say Z and people get upset. I think there's a difference between having a robust debate and personal abuse. In the case of the Anderton's videos it's fine to criticise the content  if you think they missed a trick - however, there's no excuse for personal abuse and threats. I actually got threatened in a Brexit thread ..

I'm basically implying don't post in those scenarios at all, if it matters that you portray a completely (or as close to) positive image online.

Yes I agree debating should be fine but there are always people who can't handle being challenged, misread what you put, or deliberately misrepresent it.

That's pretty much why I only debate (infrequently) in SC, because most of the people who post in there aren't so quickly upset or offended. Plus it's private so that's where people talk about real emotional and personal issues too... and it's pretty private being members only... ironically it gets slated as the worst part of the board but the vast majority of all the dickish behaviour, especially that relating to businesses, happens in the rest of the board 

RandallFlagg

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

The 'forum' part of Youtube is shite though. Whoever reads through comments on a Youtube video?, it's like scraping your cock with sandpaper. The functionality is crap and the comments either tedious sycophancy, nihilistic or narcissistic.

If Andertons want to spend time censoring Youtube then that's up to them, it would be easier to just disable comments, problem solved, and start his own Andertons forum and employ some moderators, or buy a section on The Fretboard dedicated to Andertons. Rob Chapman has his own forum, I don't go there much as it seems to be inhabited by shorts wearing, camper van driving, long hair surfer types who call each other 'dude' and play widdly widdly metal on guitars I typically hate the style of.

Bridgehouse

Drew_TNBD said:

Fretwired said:

I actually got threatened in a Brexit thread .. 

Shut up before I punch your dick off.

Is that anatomically possible?

RocknRollDave

fftc said:

RocknRollDave said:

 "Comments below please (NB abusive, sexist, homophobic or anti-lefthandedness posts will be deleted and users blocked, so please don't bother!)"

Has lefthandedness become a protected characteristic now? wtf!

When will it end.

Tuesday 

RocknRollDave

@Bucket FWIW I gig every so often with a drummer who makes his living from teaching music and gigging in various bands. He keeps his personal and professional social media very separate. None of his pupils/ pupils' parents/ colleagues in the school are "friended" on his personal Facebook account and vice versa. I'm sure there are other housekeeping tips out there but basically keeping the two aspects of your online life very separate seems to work very well for him, and he gets plenty of work, so it's not like he's missing out on opportunities.