Cant say fairer than these sentiments from Andertons.

Drew_TNBD

goldtop said:

Seems that the biggest "banterers" on this forum are the ones who whining loudest about what Andertons have done. Hmm...

Well that's a "useful" bit of "banter".

Funkfingers

ThePrettyDamned said:

There was an incident with them on here? How'd I miss that?!

I missed that too.

Any chance of a quick summary or is the board forbidden to mention anything about this topic for fear of something similar happening again?

CarpeDiem

I can understand their annoyance of abusive comments and trolling, but I think that by making a comparatively lengthy video to convey a few messages may result in motivating those that post abusive comments. I don't bother with many Andertons videos now as they talk a lot but don't say much. Instead, I watch of Rabea Massad's videos on his own YouTube channel.

digitalscream

Funkfingers said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

There was an incident with them on here? How'd I miss that?!

I missed that too.

Any chance of a quick summary or is the board forbidden to mention anything about this topic for fear of something similar happening again?

Andertons staff were on here and being really quite helpful in resolving a few issues for people and the relationship was developing nicely (as it did with GAK and Guitar Guitar). Then, in a thread about one of Rob & Lee's videos, somebody made abusive comments about Rob's wife, then someone else piled in about Lee's wife, and pretty soon his kid and - I believe - his dog were targets too. There were a number of people guilty of it and it got really quite nasty, so I went to him to apologise on behalf of the community over the whole thing to try to smooth things over. He accepted the apology (he'd read the threads in question), but nobody from Andertons has been seen on here since.

It's just occurred to me...we haven't seen anyone from GAK since around then either, and I think the same can be said for GG.

Drew_TNBD

This place is toxic.

guitarfishbay

In fairness as far as I remember the super helpful GAK guy left GAK, and GAK guy mk2 didn't seem as interested in posting.

I don't actually remember a GG guy.

And then some companies didn't even understand how to use the board either... eg kept posting thinly veiled adverts constantly like it was Facebook.

I didn't see the incident(s), but I think it's sad members were dicks to people trying to be helpful to the board. However, unless the bigger businesses have people who know and understand forum culture then it's not going to work long term anyway. I guess that's one reason why some of our pro maker/seller members fit in so well, they've been members for so long they get how to be both a business and just a person chatting about gear

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

This place is toxic.

Now I've got this stick in my head again

Fretwired

richardhomer said:

Emp_Fab said:

It's all just publicity seeking attention. 

I know - who knows what they'll do next? A video about chav scum, perhaps?

Isn't that what they've just done .. ;-)

In fairness @Emp_Fab has a point.

simonk

digitalscream said:

Funkfingers said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

There was an incident with them on here? How'd I miss that?!

I missed that too.

Any chance of a quick summary or is the board forbidden to mention anything about this topic for fear of something similar happening again?

Andertons staff were on here and being really quite helpful in resolving a few issues for people and the relationship was developing nicely (as it did with GAK and Guitar Guitar). Then, in a thread about one of Rob & Lee's videos, somebody made abusive comments about Rob's wife, then someone else piled in about Lee's wife, and pretty soon his kid and - I believe - his dog were targets too. There were a number of people guilty of it and it got really quite nasty, so I went to him to apologise on behalf of the community over the whole thing to try to smooth things over. He accepted the apology (he'd read the threads in question), but nobody from Andertons has been seen on here since.

It's just occurred to me...we haven't seen anyone from GAK since around then either, and I think the same can be said for GG.

Damn shame really.

Drew_TNBD said:

This place is toxic.

Is it the place or some of the clientele?

Emp_Fab

Fretwired said:

richardhomer said:

Emp_Fab said:

It's all just publicity seeking attention. 

I know - who knows what they'll do next? A video about chav scum, perhaps?

Isn't that what they've just done .. ;-)

In fairness @Emp_Fab has a point.

Thanks Hun.

I was a bit surprised that my comment garnered one Wiz yet Mr Homer's swipe at me for my previous objections to chav behaviour managed four.  Would there be any statistical value in assuming therefore that four times as many people here prefer chavs to Andertons ?

digitalscream

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Funkfingers said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

There was an incident with them on here? How'd I miss that?!

I missed that too.

Any chance of a quick summary or is the board forbidden to mention anything about this topic for fear of something similar happening again?

Andertons staff were on here and being really quite helpful in resolving a few issues for people and the relationship was developing nicely (as it did with GAK and Guitar Guitar). Then, in a thread about one of Rob & Lee's videos, somebody made abusive comments about Rob's wife, then someone else piled in about Lee's wife, and pretty soon his kid and - I believe - his dog were targets too. There were a number of people guilty of it and it got really quite nasty, so I went to him to apologise on behalf of the community over the whole thing to try to smooth things over. He accepted the apology (he'd read the threads in question), but nobody from Andertons has been seen on here since.

It's just occurred to me...we haven't seen anyone from GAK since around then either, and I think the same can be said for GG.

They have to grow a pair. This is how the real online world works - it's nasty, but they do it as it makes money. Stick your head over the parapet and people will shoot at you. I suspect some of those posting comments work for the competition or are jealous of Lee and Rob's success. I have a few clients who use YouTube - they don't get much abuse - more people punting Russian brides and tat - but they pay an agency to clean things up.

If I were Lee I wouldn't have posted that video - I would have quietly cleaned up the comments section and blocked people.  I think he'll regret posting it.

Bucket

Fretwired said:

They have to grow a pair. This is how the real online world works - it's nasty, but they do it as it makes money. Stick your head over the parapet and people will shoot at you. I suspect some of those posting comments work for the competition or are jealous of Lee and Rob's success. I have a few clients who use YouTube - they don't get much abuse - more people punting Russian brides and tat - but they pay an agency to clean things up.

If I were Lee I wouldn't have posted that video - I would have quietly cleaned up the comments section and blocked people.  I think he'll regret posting it.

I would normally agree, but I'm not sure making it quite THAT personal is really in order (regarding the above-mentioned Andertons thread). Really is beyond the limits of what a content provider should reasonably expect in terms of negative reaction, if you ask me.

I have only heard about the thread, I don't recall seeing it - must have passed me by, because I tend to skip past a lot of threads on the subforums, but hearing about it makes me pretty uneasy. The fact that this place, which I usually find is full of very helpful, friendly, interesting and funny people, can have such a sadistic, abusive underbelly to it that really goes far beyond "banter" and certainly a long way beyond considered debate and discussion, is a bit worrying. From my perspective, it's especially so because I'm trying to build a career in music and am trying to increase and improve my online presence, and I'd really rather not be associated with a community that is widely known for that sort of behaviour...

Emp_Fab

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

Yeah but... who actually reads YouTube comments in the way a forum is read ?  I'd be amazed if more than 5% of all the comments made on YouTube videos are ever even read.

It's a pretty futile exercise...  like advertising at Redditch United's ground.

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

Funkfingers said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

There was an incident with them on here? How'd I miss that?!

I missed that too.

Any chance of a quick summary or is the board forbidden to mention anything about this topic for fear of something similar happening again?

Andertons staff were on here and being really quite helpful in resolving a few issues for people and the relationship was developing nicely (as it did with GAK and Guitar Guitar). Then, in a thread about one of Rob & Lee's videos, somebody made abusive comments about Rob's wife, then someone else piled in about Lee's wife, and pretty soon his kid and - I believe - his dog were targets too. There were a number of people guilty of it and it got really quite nasty, so I went to him to apologise on behalf of the community over the whole thing to try to smooth things over. He accepted the apology (he'd read the threads in question), but nobody from Andertons has been seen on here since.

It's just occurred to me...we haven't seen anyone from GAK since around then either, and I think the same can be said for GG.

They have to grow a pair. This is how the real online world works - it's nasty, but they do it as it makes money. Stick your head over the parapet and people will shoot at you. I suspect some of those posting comments work for the competition or are jealous of Lee and Rob's success. I have a few clients who use YouTube - they don't get much abuse - more people punting Russian brides and tat - but they pay an agency to clean things up.

If I were Lee I wouldn't have posted that video - I would have quietly cleaned up the comments section and blocked people.  I think he'll regret posting it.

I presume you're not suggesting that we should've allowed those comments on here to stand...?

In any case...we told people to behave themselves, and they did (largely). There's no reason it shouldn't work on the Andertons channel; this video is no more than the equivalent of the rant I went on after that incident on here.

This vid also works another way - it's guaranteed to bring the trolls out, so Andertons get a short sharp hit of getting rid of a whole bunch of them, and then it's just maintenance from there.

Bucket said:

Fretwired said:

They have to grow a pair. This is how the real online world works - it's nasty, but they do it as it makes money. Stick your head over the parapet and people will shoot at you. I suspect some of those posting comments work for the competition or are jealous of Lee and Rob's success. I have a few clients who use YouTube - they don't get much abuse - more people punting Russian brides and tat - but they pay an agency to clean things up.

If I were Lee I wouldn't have posted that video - I would have quietly cleaned up the comments section and blocked people.  I think he'll regret posting it.

I would normally agree, but I'm not sure making it quite THAT personal is really in order (regarding the above-mentioned Andertons thread). Really is beyond the limits of what a content provider should really expect in terms of negative reaction, if you ask me.

I have only heard about the thread, I don't recall seeing it - must have passed me by, because I tend to skip past a lot of threads on the subforums, but hearing about it makes me pretty uneasy. The fact that this place, which I usually find is full of very helpful, friendly, interesting and funny people, can have such a sadistic, abusive underbelly to it that really goes far beyond "banter" and certainly a long way beyond considered debate and discussion, is a bit worrying. From my perspective, it's especially so because I'm trying to build a career in music and am trying to increase and improve my online presence, and I'd really rather not be associated with a community that is widely known for that sort of behaviour...

I think you're worrying too much. Would you avoid YouTube and Facebook too, because those communities also have a lot of idiots posting crap? The only way to stay totally dissociated from any kind of unwanted behaviour is to stay offline entirely.

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

Yeah but... who actually reads YouTube comments in the way a forum is read ?  I'd be amazed if more than 5% of all the comments made on YouTube videos are ever even read.

It's a pretty futile exercise...  like advertising at Redditch United's ground.

Lots of people do, just not from your generation (and not many from mine).

Bridgehouse

There's a simple way to measure whether anything you post meets at least a certain standard of decency.

Dont post anything you wouldn't say to the recipients face.

digitalscream

On another note...I'm amused by all the people saying stuff like "They don't know how it works". Andertons' channel has 300k subscribers, most of them from the last couple of years (since they stopped relying on The Chappers Effect), and they're growing fast. I would suggest that's an indicator that they do know what they're doing and they probably know how it works. To give you an idea, in two years their channel has gone from growing by around 1k subs a month to 10-15k subs a month. Since they posted that video, they've had nearly twice as many subs as they normally would, which neatly disproves the idea that they shouldn't have done it.

I hate that I'm sounding like a cheerleader for Andertons here - I'm not, and I've already written off any chance of us working with them - but come on. They've built a channel of significant size, whereas I'd hazard a guess that nobody on this thread (or even in this entire forum) has even 0.1% of their subscriber base if they even have a channel. Hell, this forum's entire member list makes up about 2% of theirs.

A perfect example of this is the suggestion that they should disable comments - if they did that, their view count would drop by 20-40%. Conclusion: people on here don't really know how YouTube works

FelineGuitars

Lee Anderson says we need to start being nice on Youtube and not being dicks.

A few vocal folk on here who "like a bit of badinage" complain that it's censorship, virtue signalling and snowflake nurturing.

Andertons subscribers numbers jumps UPWARDS suggesting that there is a lot of people that would prefer a world in which people were expected to behave nicely. Not censorship, but simply not being nasty.

ThePrettyDamned

digitalscream said:

This thread's illustrated a few things to me, not least that I don't think many folk here really have an appreciation of how YouTube works as a community - it's not just a content delivery mechanism like TV, but rather it's a bit like a cross between a TV and a forum.

Case in point: a medium-to-large YouTuber like Phil De Franco. He posts an average video, and within 24hrs it's had more comments than the entirety of our forum. This is "community" on a scale which is hard to think about, and - contrary to popular belief - it's not just full of teenage dickheads aiming vitriol at people.

I've followed channels (quite successful ones I mean) who have turned comments off and within a few videos the following has gone. 

YouTube is as social as media gets. And it's mostly great - just a few dickheads ruining it. 

I saw a brilliant line on a gcn video - someone asking why the show was presented by Brits when, "they're gay and anyway americans are stronger cyclists anyway" or words to that effect. People rise to the bait...