Burglar got killed

57Deluxe

Fretwired said:

 We have a major fly tipping problem where I live and most of it is done by local Gypsies. People have filmed them doing it but the police aren't interested. If I don't pay my road tax the bastards would be on top of me like a ton of bricks.

ironically come and take your car and crush it - at a Gypsie(o)-scrappie Yard!

scrumhalf

Tell them the criminal's family have been race-hate tweeting, there will be rozzers by the dozen pouncing on them.

Phil_aka_Pip

Letting arseholes get away with the unacceptable for fear of how they might retaliate or escalate is not on. I mean, it wouldn't happen at the international level, now, would it?

jonnyburgo

57Deluxe said:

is turning into a war now... Totally despicable

Gosh, who knew?

VimFuego

jonnyburgo said:

57Deluxe said:

is turning into a war now... Totally despicable

Gosh, who knew?

probably the family, which may be why they put them up in the 1st place. 

jonnyburgo

Which only goes to strengthen my view that says let them get on with it. You cant beat these people as they operate outside the law. Now you have the added element of the press whipping up trouble to get that all important scoop. People who dont give a fuck about either parties will be coming down for the aggro. The family and friends should have been left to it, whatever their motives. 

VimFuego

well, I disagree, I think the family were doing it to whip up trouble and to cause fear and alarm, nothing you've said has made me think otherwise. I get that this doesn't fit with how you wish the narrative was, but that's the world. And while it may fit your narrative that this is the fault of the media and people coming down for aggro, the facts don't support that. The facts are it's the family that care causing this. 
But hey, I get it, you've argued yourself into a corner and are too ego bound to get out. 
EDIT: and I'm sure it does strengthen your view, that's the whole point of prejudices, you pre judge a situation without assessing the facts, and the more facts you are exposed to, the stronger your prejudice. That's kinda how it works when you have an ideological position. 

Chalky

jonnyburgo said:

Which only goes to strengthen my view that says let them get on with it. You cant beat these people as they operate outside the law. Now you have the added element of the press whipping up trouble to get that all important scoop. People who dont give a fuck about either parties will be coming down for the aggro. The family and friends should have been left to it, whatever their motives. 

And bollocks to the entirely innocent folks who live in those houses either side of where their 78 year old neighbour and his wife were attacked?

Fretwired

jonnyburgo said:

Which only goes to strengthen my view that says let them get on with it. You cant beat these people as they operate outside the law. Now you have the added element of the press whipping up trouble to get that all important scoop. People who dont give a fuck about either parties will be coming down for the aggro. The family and friends should have been left to it, whatever their motives. 

Bollocks to that. The police want a quiet life and as usual end up on the wrong side of the argument as they don't want some human rights lawyer suing them. The local people should continue to tear down and burn the flowers in protest. This is a provocation/intimidation of the victim (who is under police guard) and local population.

jonnyburgo

Chalky said:

jonnyburgo said:

Which only goes to strengthen my view that says let them get on with it. You cant beat these people as they operate outside the law. Now you have the added element of the press whipping up trouble to get that all important scoop. People who dont give a fuck about either parties will be coming down for the aggro. The family and friends should have been left to it, whatever their motives. 

And bollocks to the entirely innocent folks who live in those houses either side of where their 78 year old neighbour and his wife were attacked?

No. I have lots of sympathy for the locals but The situation as it stands is not working in fact it is escalating. What we have is two sides both thinking they are right and both justifying their actions. So this could run and run and I’m sure there will be more violence. As it escalates then both parties may dig their heels in out of spite, the tributes may become more ostentatious and the reactions to them may become more extreme. The press love this shit and will love to stir the pot. a frothy mouthed reactionary viewpoint is not helpful, it rarely is. There needs to be a moderate approach to working this out without letting emotions get in the way. 
Its likely that none of us has the perfect answer though. Feel free to LOL away please.

VimFuego

well, it could be easily stopped, the family could grieve in private, away from the media. 

jonnyburgo

Well wether you agree with it or not  the family has the right to grieve as they see fit although I don’t know the legal implications. If it is illegal then the police will remove them I would have thought. The best reaction is no reaction. Not popular I know.

VimFuego

they do have the right to grieve they do not have the right to grieve in an antisocial manner, which is what they are doing. However, you are right, the best reaction for the family is to to not react, but they are. I am glad you came round to our way of thinking in the end, it takes courage to change your mind when faced with facts.

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

they do have the right to grieve they do not have the right to grieve in an antisocial manner, which is what they are doing. However, you are right, the best reaction for the family is to to not react, but they are. I am glad you came round to our way of thinking in the end, it takes courage to change your mind when faced with facts.

^^

This .. a zillion wiz's .. ;-)

VimFuego

I think there's something getting lost in this exchange of moralities, and that in all of this there are some real victims, people who are involved in this completely against their will and who never asked for any of this to happen and will have to live with the consequences of of this for the rest of their lives. Those people are the elderly man and his disabled wife. I fee for the family of the criminal, but they are not victims. My main concern is for the real victims here and any action against them, including putting up flowers outside their home, I feel is morally repugnant. 

jonnyburgo

VimFuego said:

they do have the right to grieve they do not have the right to grieve in an antisocial manner, which is what they are doing. However, you are right, the best reaction for the family is to to not react, but they are. I am glad you came round to our way of thinking in the end, it takes courage to change your mind when faced with facts.

Haha nice try! The situation is this- the tributes are up and they aren’t going anywhere as long as the law says so. So what is the best thing to do now? Rip them down? - they just go back up probably bigger and better than before. People on both sides spoiling for a war, more violence ensues. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be the bigger person. 

VimFuego

jonnyburgo said:

VimFuego said:

they do have the right to grieve they do not have the right to grieve in an antisocial manner, which is what they are doing. However, you are right, the best reaction for the family is to to not react, but they are. I am glad you came round to our way of thinking in the end, it takes courage to change your mind when faced with facts.

Haha nice try! The situation is this- the tributes are up and they aren’t going anywhere as long as the law says so. So what is the best thing to do now? Rip them down? - they just go back up probably bigger and better than before. People on both sides spoiling for a war, more violence ensues. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be the bigger person. 

well, you're no longer saying anything new, so until you do I'll just assume you want the last word. Just an FYI, saying the same thing over and over hoping for a different outcome is not being right, it's just being mad.
And I'm not really talking about the law, I'm talking about morality, I'm questioning the morality of those who put up the tributes, and those who support them.
As I said, there are only 2 victims here, I'll save my sympathy for them.

jonnyburgo

Okay

Chalky

jonnyburgo said:

Chalky said:

jonnyburgo said:

Which only goes to strengthen my view that says let them get on with it. You cant beat these people as they operate outside the law. Now you have the added element of the press whipping up trouble to get that all important scoop. People who dont give a fuck about either parties will be coming down for the aggro. The family and friends should have been left to it, whatever their motives. 

And bollocks to the entirely innocent folks who live in those houses either side of where their 78 year old neighbour and his wife were attacked?

No. I have lots of sympathy for the locals but The situation as it stands is not working in fact it is escalating. What we have is two sides both thinking they are right and both justifying their actions. So this could run and run and I’m sure there will be more violence. As it escalates then both parties may dig their heels in out of spite, the tributes may become more ostentatious and the reactions to them may become more extreme. The press love this shit and will love to stir the pot. a frothy mouthed reactionary viewpoint is not helpful, it rarely is. There needs to be a moderate approach to working this out without letting emotions get in the way. 
Its likely that none of us has the perfect answer though. Feel free to LOL away please.

You say that what we have is two sides both thinking they are right. You equate them. Like the lazy teacher who finds the little kid being hit by the bully, and punishes both equally, you avoid taking a judgement.

Someone I knew well witnessed a neighbour's murder by another neighbour. It destroyed their belief in the local community where they had lived for decades, and the stress at their age was too much. They died shortly after the trial.

Please stop equating a bunch of intimidated innocent pensioners with a crime-loving family.

menamestom

jonnyburgo said:

 

People on both sides spoiling for a war, more violence ensues. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be the bigger person. 

The bigger person protects the victim from further distress and removes all trace of the perpetrator from the scene of the crime. Being firm in that is not starting a war.

It's not a shrine, it's a crime scene and only one crime was committed.  There won't be a war by being strong and protecting the residents from further distress.  Remove everything and cordon the street off so only residents can enter, until the situation calms down.

I know you mean well, but assuming there are 2 sides of equal voice is incorrect, there is one side only.