Burglar got killed

Heartfeltdawn

jonnyburgo said:

Well wether you agree with it or not  the family has the right to grieve as they see fit although I don’t know the legal implications. If it is illegal then the police will remove them I would have thought. The best reaction is no reaction. Not popular I know.

But they don't. If f my father died, I don't have the automatic right to grieve naked in the street, pissed out of my head, firing off shotgun blasts at 2am. 

No reaction from the residents means you're asking people to hold the moral high ground and to respect those who show no respect. 

You say that both sides are spoiling for a war: who is? Those residents aren't spoiling for a war. They're defensive of an old bloke whose safety and security was shat over by a bloke who cared not one jot about the people whose house he entered. 

Wait until the funeral in Orpington for the real fun to start. Let them mourn then in his home area. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Chalky said:

jonnyburgo said:

Chalky said:

jonnyburgo said:

Which only goes to strengthen my view that says let them get on with it. You cant beat these people as they operate outside the law. Now you have the added element of the press whipping up trouble to get that all important scoop. People who dont give a fuck about either parties will be coming down for the aggro. The family and friends should have been left to it, whatever their motives. 

And bollocks to the entirely innocent folks who live in those houses either side of where their 78 year old neighbour and his wife were attacked?

No. I have lots of sympathy for the locals but The situation as it stands is not working in fact it is escalating. What we have is two sides both thinking they are right and both justifying their actions. So this could run and run and I’m sure there will be more violence. As it escalates then both parties may dig their heels in out of spite, the tributes may become more ostentatious and the reactions to them may become more extreme. The press love this shit and will love to stir the pot. a frothy mouthed reactionary viewpoint is not helpful, it rarely is. There needs to be a moderate approach to working this out without letting emotions get in the way. 
Its likely that none of us has the perfect answer though. Feel free to LOL away please.

You say that what we have is two sides both thinking they are right. You equate them. Like the lazy teacher who finds the little kid being hit by the bully, and punishes both equally, you avoid taking a judgement.

My god, it’s like you just summed up 11 years of my life in one paragraph. This is exactly what happened to me at school. And I couldn’t understand at the time why I was being punished as much as the bullies. This is what drove me into deep depression (which surfaces now and then even to this day). Those in “authority” didn’t want the hassle of finding out the whole story and dealing with it properly hence the equal punishment (this usually resulted in a lecture from a teacher, frequently from one who I never had any dealings with at all!). 

Anyway.. shrines, paying respect, etc... the residents are right to remove the items from their street. Regardless of whether a man died, he would still be alive if he hadn’t broken in to an elderly mans home armed and ready. 

I have little sympathy for the families loss. As a human I obviously think it’s sad that someone ultimately died in a violent struggle. But it was a scenario that he created for himself. No one forced him into that house.

We shouldn’t have to face these decisions. Imagine how the real victim (Richard Brooks) feels.... 78 years old and responsible for ending a mans life. I hardly think he’s jumping for joy about it. 

MattBanshee

I disagree with the whole "they have a right to grieve" thing. They chucked Osama Bin Laden in the sea, they had Ian Brady's body disposed of without ceremony following a court case preventing his body being released elsewhere. This guy was the lowest of the low, absolute criminal pondlife, and deserves no mourning or memorial.

scrumhalf

This use of "victim" to describe the burglar fills me with nausea.

He set out to break the law and deliberately intimidate those who were less able to protect and defend themselves. He recieved what many on here would consider to be an appropriate response to his wholly illegal actions. There isn't the merest whiff of victimhood about this, had he chosen to live his life like the rest of us do, operating within both statutory and common law and within the bounds of what the overwhelming majority of people in this country would consider to be decent behaviour he would still be alive.

The only victims in his family are his children, and that's because they have been brought up in an environment in which their father's behaviour is considered to be appropriate and morally acceptable. Maybe there might be some good to come from this, that they will understand what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

As for the public grieving, it's nothing of the sort. It's public intimidation. What would be nice would be a display of flowers in memory of those killed by robbing thieving lowlifes.

Phil_aka_Pip

MattBanshee said:

I disagree with the whole "they have a right to grieve" thing. They chucked Osama Bin Laden in the sea, they had Ian Brady's body disposed of without ceremony following a court case preventing his body being released elsewhere. This guy was the lowest of the low, absolute criminal pondlife, and deserves no mourning or memorial.

I agree but HE committed the crime not his family. Maybe his family condoned the crime (IMO they shouldn't) but whether or not they do/did, they were not the ones who committed it. I think they should be allowed to go home and grieve.

bodhi

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I think they should be allowed to go home and grieve. 

That's what they should have done.  But it seems like they want to grieve very publicly by attaching flowers to someone else's property.  That actually says something about them in itself.

IMO it looks like they're giving that community a big ole' FU we can do whatever we want.  Intimidation - yes, I think so, too.

I do feel sorry for his children's sake, but this is outrageous.  No class, no shame.

MattBanshee

Phil_aka_Pip said:

MattBanshee said:

I disagree with the whole "they have a right to grieve" thing. They chucked Osama Bin Laden in the sea, they had Ian Brady's body disposed of without ceremony following a court case preventing his body being released elsewhere. This guy was the lowest of the low, absolute criminal pondlife, and deserves no mourning or memorial.

I agree but HE committed the crime not his family. Maybe his family condoned the crime (IMO they shouldn't) but whether or not they do/did, they were not the ones who committed it. I think they should be allowed to go home and grieve.

Go home and grieve, yes. Is that what they are doing? No it isn't. 

axisus

My problem is that we aren't taking about some loveable rogue here, burglars are utter scum of the earth. If my mum and dad got burgled like that it would destroy my mum, she's 84 and couldn't live with the thought of not being safe in her own home, and having her property violated in that way. Mourn in private but don't expect a gram of sympathy from the general public, and don't shove it in our faces. Weak policing if you ask me.

MattBanshee

axisus said:

My problem is that we aren't taking about some loveable rogue here, burglars are utter scum of the earth. If my mum and dad got burgled like that it would destroy my mum, she's 84 and couldn't live with the thought of not being safe in her own home, and having her property violated in that way. Mourn in private but don't expect a gram of sympathy from the general public, and don't shove it in our faces. Weak policing if you ask me.

Yup. The police are scared of them. They'd find the missing accomplace easily if they drove into every traveller site in the country, but they are scared both of the physical repercussions, but also of being accused of racism.

Phil_aka_Pip

MattBanshee said:

The police are scared of them. They'd find the missing accomplace easily if they drove into every traveller site in the country, but they are scared both of the physical repercussions, but also of being accused of racism.

Would the army be? They weren't scared of the revellers at Stonehenge in 1985.

Dopesick

This is crazy. I hope this whole situation gets made into a BBC two part drama series.

Philly_Q

Phil_aka_Pip said:

MattBanshee said:

The police are scared of them. They'd find the missing accomplace easily if they drove into every traveller site in the country, but they are scared both of the physical repercussions, but also of being accused of racism.

Would the army be? They weren't scared of the revellers at Stonehenge in 1985.

Was that Ken Barlow?

Bellycaster

Chalky said:

Iamnobody said:

bodhi said:

Career criminal targets the vulnerable.  Karma hands him his ass.  Tough luck.  Next.

I’m sure he will be remembered as a rough diamond, a loveable rogue who will be sadly missed by all his family and friends...

Apparently his family is already claiming "there are questions that must be answered"...





























They should be fucking grateful they don't have to choose between a Strat or a Tele.......Or the old "Does Wood Matter" debate.

:-D

Fretwired

Sad news. Police have told the guy who was burgled that they can't guarantee his safety so he's having to sell his house ... how likely is he to get market value for it?

VimFuego

Fretwired said:

Sad news. Police have told the guy who was burgled that they can't guarantee his safety so he's having to sell his house ... how likely is he to get market value for it?

this is pretty much what I thought would happen, he continues to be a victim, until the day he dies now. 

EDIT: and what happens when the state steps back from its responsibilities is it gives license to the vigilantes who think, what's the point of the police? I'll take care of matters myself.

jonnyburgo

It's a very sad outcome. I wouldnt be surprised if the stress finishes him off.

underdog

Fretwired said:

Sad news. Police have told the guy who was burgled that they can't guarantee his safety so he's having to sell his house ... how likely is he to get market value for it?

It's terrible, he's an elderly man who already has to live his remaining days knowing he killed someone, and now he has to sell up. None of this was his making, he simply defended his house and wife against a criminal.

bodhi

This is where the "system" should step in and help the victims.  Relocate them to a safe place.

So who's going to pick up the bill for the burglar's funeral, I wonder?

Heartfeltdawn

bodhi said:

This is where the "system" should step in and help the victims.  Relocate them to a safe place.

So who's going to pick up the bill for the burglar's funeral, I wonder?

As it will require a police presence at the funeral, it's going to be quite a sum. 

sev112

Now this something that would worth crowdfunding, to make sure him nd his wife can live in happiness somewhere else