Flipping

robgilmo

Speaking of flipping, I think ive just bought an early 70's Aria by mistake!

Snags

@Longtallronnie and @FreddieVanHalen Not that it changes either of your points particularly, but you're conflating two separate sales/re-sales.

The OP hasn't named the purchaser, and AFAICS their purchaser hasn't popped up here saying "Oh, that was me".

@DB1 chipped in with a similar tale, without naming anyone, and his purchaser did pop up to say "That was me, and this was my take on it", and it would seem that they are more or less all chums again now, as some of the irksomeness was based on false but understandable assumptions.

On the wider issue, the problem clearly arises from a clash of expectations. When the seller is operating on the basis that tFB is essentially an "extended mates" circle but the buyer is operating on a "slash and burn neo-liberal capitalism anything to maximise return" basis, you're going to get a bit of resentment.  Mostly because if the seller finds out, they're going to a) feel like they've been had on, and b) that the buyer is a bit of wanker.

What the buyer does in those situations falls under "it's not cricket" - it's not actively wrong, it's just a bit shitty given the wider working assumptions about classifieds here; particularly if the buyer spins a yarn of purist bullshit.

bacchanalian

A business has to offer a returns policy where you can return with no explanation but with a private seller you would have to have a case where the item is mis-described.

shaunm

Interesting thread. I moved a guitar on 5 days after I bought it recently as a trade for a guitar I really wanted came up (and a killer SG it is too).  I bought the guitar for a specific recording situation and had done that session in those five days.

I must admit I almost felt sheepish about it though as I thought I had potentially wronged the seller of the first guitar by moving it on so quickly. In the cold light of day I am sure nobody is unhappy as all three parties got exactly what they were after.

I don’t really take much offence from people buying my gear and selling it for more than I sold it for so long as I haven’t been lied to along the way. I tend to sell cheap and buy high when it comes to guitar gear. God knows why!?!?

not_neville

Fishboy7 said:

I'm curious to know what guitar. Was it the cs tele?

@Fishboy7 ;it wasn't the CS Custom Deluxe Tele recently sold by @Hattigol ;;; as I bought that and it's still with me.

I'll do a NGD thread soon - I've finally found a lightweight tele where it's easy to tweak the truss rod after owning so many CS and a real 60's one in the past - also I've been looking for one with a belly cut and forearm contour for a long time so I have no plans to sell it. 

Also I bought it through EBay - not on here - I joined here as we were negotiating the sale, in case Hattigol wanted any recommendations from members - I used to be an active member of the Music Radar forum and have traded with / met well known members in the past.

Longtallronnie

@snags just reread thread and you’re right, the OP’s buyer hasn’t chipped in. 
I still hold the opinion that nobody holds a gun to your head to sell at a specific price though and would recommend only selling at a price you’re happy with. 

guitarfishbay

Longtallronnie said:

TTony said:

On the other hand, the flippers really PISS ME OFF.  The Classifieds used to be a benefit-for-the-community.  It was something that was there to be used by people who were using the forum for all of its purposes.  Mates rates were often available, and deals were done on a word, and trust was all around.  That's undermined by flippers.  Nowadays, many people *only* inhabit the Classifieds, either looking to sell-free, or to buy-cheap-and-flip.  

PM me Hattlgol with the name. 

TTony I’m not expecting an answer but I’m curious as to what you were planning on doing if the OP pm’d you with a name? 
Maybe I misinterpreted but your post just seemed a little insidious to me. 

He was clearly going to TTerminate them...

In all seriousness could we please have clarification on what Modmin rules are when it comes to things like this?

Are we moving towards a morality based model for the classifieds?

Blaendulais

guitarfishbay said:

Longtallronnie said:

TTony said:

On the other hand, the flippers really PISS ME OFF.  The Classifieds used to be a benefit-for-the-community.  It was something that was there to be used by people who were using the forum for all of its purposes.  Mates rates were often available, and deals were done on a word, and trust was all around.  That's undermined by flippers.  Nowadays, many people *only* inhabit the Classifieds, either looking to sell-free, or to buy-cheap-and-flip.  

PM me Hattlgol with the name. 

TTony I’m not expecting an answer but I’m curious as to what you were planning on doing if the OP pm’d you with a name? 
Maybe I misinterpreted but your post just seemed a little insidious to me. 

He was clearly going to TTerminate them...

In all seriousness could we please have clarification on what Modmin rules are when it comes to things like this?

Are we moving towards a morality based model for the classifieds?

Lets hope so

Garthy

If I flog a Jackson for £400, and my fellow fretboarder only gets £300 for it on eBay a week later, am I expected to give him £50?

professorben

Garthy said:

If I flog a Jackson for £400, and my fellow fretboarder only gets £300 for it on eBay a week later, am I expected to give him £50?

In a morally based model yes. 
You are partially responsible for selling it at a higher than market rate price. 

Presumably.   

robgilmo

Garthy said:

If I flog a Jackson for £400, and my fellow fretboarder only gets £300 for it on eBay a week later, am I expected to give him £50?

You must grovel and apologise profusely and beg forgiveness for doing such a horrible thing to another fellow human being. 

Then you must be stoned to death.


Then we will eat you.

mgaw

after reading through this thread and some thinking time....i realise the error of my ways in so much as it is a Community the FB, and one which can only be strengthened by a constant reinforcing of that "ethos"..me no flip no more..in my defence i do have a condition that makes me very impulsive at times so my activities come in flurries, 

I think the likes of @Wazmeister et al are right to speak up...he still a knob though

JezWynd

dazzajl

mgaw said:

after reading through this thread and some thinking time....i realise the error of my ways in so much as it is a Community the FB, and one which can only be strengthened by a constant reinforcing of that "ethos"..me no flip no more..in my defence i do have a condition that makes me very impulsive at times so my activities come in flurries, 

I think the likes of @Wazmeister et al are right to speak up...he still a knob though

Does that mean you’ll get my LP back for me?

The one I had for barely more than a week before flipping it for your TLL

DB1

Snags said:

@DB1 chipped in with a similar tale, without naming anyone, and his purchaser did pop up to say "That was me, and this was my take on it", and it would seem that they are more or less all chums again now, as some of the irksomeness was based on false but understandable assumptions.

On the wider issue, the problem clearly arises from a clash of expectations. When the seller is operating on the basis that tFB is essentially an "extended mates" circle but the buyer is operating on a "slash and burn neo-liberal capitalism anything to maximise return" basis, you're going to get a bit of resentment.  Mostly because if the seller finds out, they're going to a) feel like they've been had on, and b) that the buyer is a bit of wanker.

What the buyer does in those situations falls under "it's not cricket" - it's not actively wrong, it's just a bit shitty given the wider working assumptions about classifieds here; particularly if the buyer spins a yarn of purist bullshit.

I agree with your post in it's entirety, but would like to just to chip in as follows: I thought, and still do, that Lee's a good guy and didn't want to name name's as I thought that wouldn't be right. Lee had the spirit to say 'that was me, but you're not right' and that's great - I'm sure that, given the details that we've both provided, that Lee would understand why I was a bit fed up, and - given Lee's description of events - that I understand why he would defend himself. 

I thought that Lee was a part time dealer - nothing wrong with that - AND a 'gearhead' - nothing wrong with that either, and the two aren't mutually exclusive. I hope we are chums again now, and let me tell you what I thought of Lee.......

He brought the cash in an envelope, and I didn't bother to check it. 

mikeyrob73

As a serial “flipper” I just don’t see the issue. I buy a guitar that guitar is mine to do with as I please, if I want to play it naked and give it knob rash on the back then that’s my choice, if I sell it at a loss also my choice, if I sell it and make a small sum, my choice, it’s my guitar. I have lost plenty on buying and selling guitars, or renting them as I like to think of it, but it’s my cash and my guitar. I have given pedals away for free on here as I wasn’t using them, if the persons I give them to decide to sell them then that’s their choice, it’s now Their pedal. 
If you don’t want to sell them don’t sell, if you NEED to sell and someone make you an offer, then that’s your choice of accepting it. 

More drinks please my head hurts 

mgaw

dazzajl said:

mgaw said:

after reading through this thread and some thinking time....i realise the error of my ways in so much as it is a Community the FB, and one which can only be strengthened by a constant reinforcing of that "ethos"..me no flip no more..in my defence i do have a condition that makes me very impulsive at times so my activities come in flurries, 

I think the likes of @Wazmeister et al are right to speak up...he still a knob though

Does that mean you’ll get my LP back for me?

The one I had for barely more than a week before flipping it for your TLL

no i flipped that one within a week to a shop keeper in Germany,  who may or may not sell it on...and i had that TLL for almost a month or two @dazzajl we are some sick puppies on here, i tell you its shopping i love with a bit of guitar thrown in

Philly_Q

mikeyrob73 said:

As a serial “flipper” I just don’t see the issue. I buy a guitar that guitar is mine to do with as I please, if I want to play it naked and give it knob rash on the back then that’s my choice, if I sell it at a loss also my choice, if I sell it and make a small sum, my choice, it’s my guitar. I have lost plenty on buying and selling guitars, or renting them as I like to think of it, but it’s my cash and my guitar. I have given pedals away for free on here as I wasn’t using them, if the persons I give them to decide to sell them then that’s their choice, it’s now Their pedal. 
If you don’t want to sell them don’t sell, if you NEED to sell and someone make you an offer, then that’s your choice of accepting it.  

I agree with you.

mikeyrob73 said:

if I want to play it naked and give it knob rash on the back then that’s my choice

But I won't be buying any of your guitars.

mikeyrob73

No problem @Philly_Q your choice 

ps I always wear at least my Mankini when playing 

redrighthand

As with many things, “it depends”, in my opinion.

- Lying to a forum member to convince them to drop the price simply to enhance your profits when you immediately flip it on: not cool. BUT as a seller, if you want to avoid dicks of this type, check out their history before you sell to them.

- Snapping something up off the forum at a very good price where there were other members queuing up to buy, with the sole intention of quickly flipping on eBay for much more: probably not cool.  Not in the the “community spirit”. Again though something you can avoid as a cautious seller - see above.

- Buying something at a good price, trying and deciding it isn’t for you, and selling on making a profit in the process: that’s life. 

And then there are all sorts of grey areas in between.

Here’s the thing though, if you are a seller, and don’t like the idea that your item may be flipped or profit, then be careful who you deal with. A person’s history on here will tell you a lot about what they’re likely to do. Don’t feel you need to deal on a first come first served basis. If you get a lot of offers, decide who you feel comfortable selling to, don’t just sell to the first person in line. You are even within your rights to say “oh shit, I’ve completely underpriced this”. It’s completely up to you.