Liam Neeson

Sassafras

heavyrocker said:

Sassafras said:

If no one's every said or done something regrettable or had any shameful thoughts or urges then they can really congratulate themselves on being morally superior and the best they can be. Doesn't make me want to be like them though.

Some good whataboutism there. You should use that defence in a court of law should the ocassion ever arise.

Well done for never having had any shameful thoughts.
You're a credit to the Fretboard.

MattBanshee

Another thing is that he basically said "I wanted to kill an innocent black man out of rage and revenge upon a race for a nasty, harmful criminal act, but then I went for a run and had a jolly good think about the whole thing and now I'm not racist any more."

In a country, in a hollywood environment, which has a deep-set and evident racist culture and history, I don't blame anyone for refusing to believe that Neeson has miraculously self-resolved his racism without any form of engagement with, or atonement to, the community that he showed such blatant hatred towards

TL;DR - a person who is racist does not get to decide by themselves that they are no longer racist.

heavyrocker

Sassafras said:

heavyrocker said:

Sassafras said:

If no one's every said or done something regrettable or had any shameful thoughts or urges then they can really congratulate themselves on being morally superior and the best they can be. Doesn't make me want to be like them though.

Some good whataboutism there. You should use that defence in a court of law should the ocassion ever arise.

Well done for never having had any shameful thoughts.
You're a credit to the Fretboard.

And add in a straw man just for good measure. Where have I said I’ve never had any shameful thoughts? You’re a credit to logic and intelligent argument.

revsorg

John Barnes was level headed with his opinion.

menamestom

heavyrocker said:

Well I must be thick then because I don’t understand what he’s saying. Is he saying that if your friend gets raped by a black man then it’s understandable to be so angry that you want to murder a black man, any black man? Um, sorry but that is racist.

Did he say that?  I thought he said he had those thoughts at the time and he's ashamed of them.  He said “It was horrible, horrible, when I think back, that I did that."

So no, I don't think he said it's 'understandable to be so angry that you want to murder a black man.'

I'm not condoning either, but they seem completely different things, so I'm a bit confused, perhaps I missed some of the quotes....

horse

I can believe that he isn't a racist, but I think his story indicates a racist mindset at the time, and a total lack of judgement today.

I find the "what's wrong, he's just being honest" point of view odd - this isn't a minor admission like Theresa may in the farmers field.

Another way to think about this, if somebody said this in a job interview would you take them on because of their admirable honesty?

heavyrocker

menamestom said:

heavyrocker said:

Well I must be thick then because I don’t understand what he’s saying. Is he saying that if your friend gets raped by a black man then it’s understandable to be so angry that you want to murder a black man, any black man? Um, sorry but that is racist.

Did he say that?  I thought he said he had those thoughts at the time and he's ashamed of them.  He said “It was horrible, horrible, when I think back, that I did that."

So no, I don't think he said it's 'understandable to be so angry that you want to murder a black man.'

I'm not condoning either, but they seem completely different things, so I'm a bit confused, perhaps I missed some of the quotes....

This is what he said, quoted in the Independent:

She handled the situation of the rape in the most extraordinary way,” Neeson says. “But my immediate reaction was…” There’s a pause. “I asked, did she know who it was? No. What colour were they? She said it was a black person.

“I went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I’d be approached by somebody – I’m ashamed to say that – and I did it for maybe a week, hoping some [Neeson gestures air quotes with his fingers] ‘black bastard’ would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something, you know? So that I could,” another pause, “kill him.

axisus

Massive error of judgement on his part. Some things just shouldn't be shared. Quite frankly he's proved himself to be something of an idiot. I bet the director and producers of his latest film are turning the air blue.

Myranda

Something to remember is that he was brought up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles... N.I. even today has gangs of revenge hungry people who have kneecapped people accused of crimes (but not sent to prison... and on several occasions got the wrong person).

It was a time when the N.I. people were so racist they didn't even like Irish people, and beat them up, blew them up and kneecapped them...

Brought up in that environment, with that pervasive attitude around you at all times it would be believable and understandable to think the way he did at the time.

Pretty sure people on here have called for death sentences for paedophiles saying they'd happily kill them... and the rage at crimes on this forum has been about strangers - news articles (posted by Emp ;-) ) that tell of some monstrous act and "hangin's not good enough for 'um" reactions... Neeson was a product of his environment reacting to an event happening to a loved one.

Does that make it right? No. Does it make it less racist? No.

But that's surely his point. The desire for revenge isn't rational but it is something we all feel at least once in our lives, if only for a second. Revenge is understandable even though afterwards he felt deep shame and regret (without even doing the deed).

And he learned from it, grew and moved on - without actually hurting someone - isn't that what we should hope for everyone doing something stupid? Isn't rehabilitation a primary goal of any judicial system? Could it not be said that the once angry N.I. teen who was violent and racist learned that hate and violence are not the answer and instead moved to the world of entertainment (by portraying hate and violence on screen... erm... maybe he could have picked a better career...) and gave up hate and bigotry? If for example KKK members gave up the hoods to march for Black-Lives-Matter would that not be a good thing? 

However, reality aside, modern social media and media outrage are the driving forces today for Hollywood casters and producers (look at James Gunn, fired for social media comments and he was unemployed for days before being hired by the competition, or more seriously Kevin Spacey who was scrubbed from cinematic history before any evidence was heard (though it turns out he might actually be a baddy)), so it is very likely that Neeson now has no career.

Luckily for him his career has been action romps and he's now too old to keep that up so he will have to sit at home with his fortune and thinking of the movies he could have made in which the critics would have said "he's too old, he should have retired years ago".

The moral of the story - don't say anything in public ever... erm... no... don't learn from mistakes... don't regret stupid decisions? Ah, don't get caught!

Caffeine_Vampire

Liam Neesons forty year old testosterone spike is news? 

He’s a dick. 

Move along. 

fftc

MattBanshee said:

TL;DR - a person who is racist does not get to decide by themselves that they are no longer racist.

Can people not learn that a way of thinking they had was wrong and move on with a better way of thinking by themselves?
What do you think it would take if someone can't decide themselves?

poopot

I think it’s a shame his career will take a hit for a few stupid remarks... he was excellent in airplane and the naked gun films!...

ICBM

I think his fundamental mistake was to think that the mainstream media would report anything more complex than a knee-jerk headline.

fftc

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Liam Neesons forty year old testosterone spike is news? 

He’s a dick. 

Move along. 

Correct.
However, it does raise some points that are worth discussing. I was born in the 70's when racism and sexism were prime time entertainment. We have moved on somewhat, but we still have massive issues with both of these in our current culture. Discussion about them is surely a step in the right direction.

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

I think his fundamental mistake was to think that the mainstream media would report anything more complex than a knee-jerk headline.

Surely a knee-son jerk reaction, no?

pmbomb

as well as the environment he grew up in, he was also lead actor on Schindler's List.

I think he's quite aware of where racism leads.

celentium

Well for all the progress we've had over the decades, we still haven't managed to learn empathy....

Snap

I thought he sounded like a bit of a div tbh. Right up his own backside. The staged outrage from the expected publications and virtue signallers is over the top and a bit nauseating. Neeson is clearly so up his own harris that he failed to see the stupidity of coming out with this in the era we live in.

I don't think he is a racist at all, and I understand the point he was thinking he was making. However, you can't help thinking  "you pillock".

BintyTwanger77

Mixed race friend of mine on Facebook said the following (worth noting he heads an organisation who actively campaigns for BAME actors getting a fair deal in the acting world, in terms of jobs, representation etc.), definitely worth a read:

"I don’t know Liam Nesson. Nor am I familiar with his films. I have zero agenda in defending him. But in a culture of outrage it’s key to acknowledge what people now wilfully fail to. Context! His comments were made with the confession he was horrified by his actions. We live in an age where celebrities & film stars are sanitised from expressing their truth. I think Neeson’s truth is one many can learn from. He showed remorse & was honest. How else are we to face big VITAL conversations about race unless we admit ugly truths we’ve learnt from? It’s not gonna be comfortable hearing he wanted to kill ‘a black bastard’ with a cosh. Just as it isn’t comfortable for me to admit that when I was young I hated black men, falsely believing they were all violent thugs due to my own early experiences as an infant. Outrage culture, the culture we now occupy would have us believe people don’t really change. That our actions, thoughts & deeds from the past are all beyond redemption. & I don’t dig that. It makes me so depressed when a story like this breaks & we don’t take heed of context. Again, Neeson admitted a THOUGHT he was ashamed of. A THOUGHT of killing a black man. Cheryl Cole actually PUNCHED a black woman, called her ‘a black bitch’ and was then rewarded with tv shows, record contracts & hair endorsements. We must be more discerning of what enrages us. ‪We haven’t time to be mad about the wrong shit. I know people who said or actually DONE far worse to my friends and colleagues than something Liam Neeson once ‘thought,’ and yet I see you work with them, go to their theatres, plays or parties and generally seek them to employ you."

Octafish

I think some here are getting a bit too sucked in by his fake sincerity. Maybe I'am being way too cynically, but to me the whole thing stinks of a publicity stunt gone wrong. He only mentioned the incident to help promote/give some emotive credibility to his new film. Unfortunately, being an out off touch, pompous, lost in showbiz lovey he badly misjudged how the whole 'my misguided-racist-vigilante angst' would be (rightly or wrongly) received.