Liam Neeson

digitalscream

He's saying that he's ashamed of what he thought and did (which, much as a lot of folk don't want to admit it, is actually something that goes along with growing up - and he's have 40 years of growing up between then and now), and he's bringing it up in the context of "We, as a society, need to be more aware of this".

The first thing that came to mind when I heard the interview is that what he thought and did isn't anything particularly unusual in this day and age. Worse, it's actually encouraged. How many times have you seen social media mobs of the unintelligent screaming for generalised violence when they see something bad? It happens all the fucking time. It's the same as the way you see people rejoicing in somebody's death because they said/did something they didn't like.

Don't believe me? Haven't ever come across it? Well, I can think of at least five threads on this very forum full of it, and I'm pretty sure that's barely scratching the surface - and, from memory, there were at least a few people involved who are condemning Neeson here.

This is something that needs addressing, and yes - my take away from the context of his interview wasn't that he's seeking absolution for what he did (I genuinely don't think he is); he was clearly (and explicitly) trying to get people in general to be more aware of the existence of this kind of bullshit.

In that respect, he's right. Whether you like him, or whether you think he's right/wrong/evil to have brought it up, is irrelevant.

ToneControl

crunchman said:

MattBanshee said:

Emp_Fab said:

Er... no they don't.  It is called enlightenment - and you don't need anyone else signing off on your achievement of it.

You kinda do if you expect those people to change their opinions of you. Whether someone is racist or not is in the eye of the beholder; it isn't a self-defining trait.

I disagree.

There is a whole school of thought that says black people can't be racist.  Read this if you want:

https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/black-people-can’t-be-racist

When Craig David went to American and was told by "Black" radio stations to get rid of his white guitarist, that is racist - at least to me beholding it as a white guitarist.  To people like the one who wrote that article who are beholding it, it can't possibly be racism, as black people cannot possibly ever be racist.

It can't just be in the eye of the beholder.  There has to be an absolute definition of racism.   Ultimately, it has to be about the attitude of the individual.  I say attitude rather than actions, as some people might have a racist attitude, but it may not be obvious from their outward actions.

If someone held racist views in the past, and genuinely renounced those views, then an external party can't see inside their head to say they are now still a racist. 

As far as I can tell those "black people can't be racist" attitudes are a USA thing founded in the hangover to slavery and the consequent structure and hierarchies. I listened to various people making the case, it seems very naive, and takes no account of the hierarchy in any other state.

You can do an online test on inherent bias, everyone has some. In reality, everyone is tribal and is hard-wired to think in ways that are not accepted in current society here. I suspect Leeson was trying to allude to that, and saying you have to out-think it.

Nevertheless, the chances of online warriors and the media not gathering their pitchforks was zero, which I don't think he foresaw.

Funkfingers

It seems that, nowadays, if you do anything that could be interpreted as disagreeable in the general direction of somebody who is not of the same race as you, they are entitled to call you a racist.

Only this afternoon, whilst I was changing a car bulb, I turned to look at some half-caste yoof, wandering along the pavement, bellowing at nobody in particular. (Best guess - he was using a cell phone and ear buds.) Not unnaturally, I kept an eye on the guy in case he did anything "unpredictable".

Without actually engaging me in any way, the guy carried along the pavement, bellowing in all directions. The only coherent words he uttered were, "white boy ... racist". This was an understandable mistake on his part. He and I had never encountered each other before. He probably believes that everybody who appears to disapprove of him does so because of his skin pigmentation. Not so. I watched him like a hawk because;

1. he was behaving like a nutter
2. I am not routinely armed

heavyrocker

As usual on here, the discussion becomes not about the person who’s done something wrong but about the people who are outraged by it. They’re the ones at fault!

Depressing really - a bunch of privileged, middle-aged white guys not seeing what all the fuss is about when another privileged, middle-aged white guy says something outrageously racist.

Emp_Fab

He's talking about something he did God-knows how many years ago, and had the insight to examine his own behaviour and is now trying to bring that conversation into the open, at the risk to his own reputation from people who can't see the wood for the trees.

You seem to believe that people cannot improve, cannot recognise past misdemeanours, can't mature and must be scolded for every transgression throughout their life forevermore.

simonk

Has he said anything racist though? He thought something racist 40 years ago... sounds like he feels pretty bad about it to this day.

thebreeze

heavyrocker said:

As usual on here, the discussion becomes not about the person who’s done something wrong but about the people who are outraged by it. They’re the ones at fault!

Depressing really - a bunch of privileged, middle-aged white guys not seeing what all the fuss is about when another privileged, middle-aged white guy says something outrageously racist.

I know what you're saying but I don't think it's as simple as "he's a racist, everyone should be outraged by it".  Of course, racism should be called out but that's exactly what he's doing - courageously and honestly citing himself as the person who a long time ago thought and acted in a way that was very wrong (to the detriment of his career it would seem).  It might be better to think about it rather than just cry, "how outrageous and unforgivable".

I mentioned Clapton earlier.  I think it's hard to call him a racist.  He also regrets saying what he said once.  He (and maybe even Liam Neeson) do more to promote race relations and anti-racism than all the Piers Morgans, social media, mainstream media etc etc who are all so outraged. 

digitalscream

heavyrocker said:

As usual on here, the discussion becomes not about the person who’s done something wrong but about the people who are outraged by it. They’re the ones at fault!

Depressing really - a bunch of privileged, middle-aged white guys not seeing what all the fuss is about when another privileged, middle-aged white guy says something outrageously racist.

No, the depressing thing is that people are listening to the wrong part of the message.

Imagine how much progress we might be able to make if those folk who are outraged at him put the same effort into trying to fix the societal problem that he's trying to draw attention to.

Instead, the focus is on him and how evil he is. Well done, you've just stopped everyone who may have the mindset that he did 40 years ago from ever having the same moment of introspection and possibly improving the world instead.

It's the same old shit. Hate the messenger, don't bother listening to the message. And those same people wonder why the world is getting steadily worse despite their amazing efforts to call people out.

While you're preaching about privilege...consider how privileged Liam Neeson was at the time that this offence against society was committed. He was a Catholic kid who grew up in a Protestant town in Northern Ireland. Regardless of how privileged he may be now, his position then was the very opposite of "privileged". Do you suppose that might've factored into his mindset and behaviour at the time? No, I'm not trying to excuse it. I'm just calling bullshit on your "privilege" argument, because it's facile and only serves to hide details that don't feed into the "this guy's evil" narrative.

heavyrocker

digitalscream said:

heavyrocker said:

As usual on here, the discussion becomes not about the person who’s done something wrong but about the people who are outraged by it. They’re the ones at fault!

Depressing really - a bunch of privileged, middle-aged white guys not seeing what all the fuss is about when another privileged, middle-aged white guy says something outrageously racist.

No, the depressing thing is that people are listening to the wrong part of the message.

Imagine how much progress we might be able to make if those folk who are outraged at him put the same effort into trying to fix the societal problem that he's trying to draw attention to.

Instead, the focus is on him and how evil he is. Well done, you've just stopped everyone who may have the mindset that he did 40 years ago from ever having the same moment of introspection and possibly improving the world instead.

It's the same old shit. Hate the messenger, don't bother listening to the message. And those same people wonder why the world is getting steadily worse despite their amazing efforts to call people out.

How can you possibly know that people who are outraged by him aren’t actively working to eradicate racism? Some of them will be doing exactly that. It’s an odd argument.

Nothing good was ever going to come out of him making a revalation like that. If anything, it’s more likely to have the reverse effect - reinforcing stereotypes about black men wanting to rape white women. 

As for your argument that calling him out stops everyone with a racist mindset from ‘having a moment of introspection’, well that’s just frankly bizarre.

Sassafras

It's strange how the social justice warriors are some of the most intolerant and least forgiving people out there.
I've had dealings with real racists and one thing they have in common is that they're actually colour blind. They just hate everyone who isn't exactly like them. Blacks, browns, yellows, greens, Jews, Catholics, they hate them all equally.

heavyrocker

@ digitalscream - to answer your subsequent point, I never once said he’s evil. He’s privileged in the sense that I can almost guarantee that he will have never, in his whole life, have experienced racism because of the colour of his skin. Just like the people commenting here who don’t see what the problem is. Of course it’s not a problem to you, because it’s not something you will ever have to worry about. So I call bullshit on your pathetic attempt to defend him.

PC_Dave

I still wouldn’t fuck with him, or any of his family... he does possess a unique set of skills, after all....

blueskunk

Let’s face it, the daft twat is an actor and about as “hard” as butter. He should have acted on his thoughts, he would have got pasted lol 

Philly_Q

heavyrocker said:

@ digitalscream - to answer your subsequent point, I never once said he’s evil. He’s privileged in the sense that I can almost guarantee that he will have never, in his whole life, have experienced racism because of the colour of his skin. Just like the people commenting here who don’t see what the problem is. Of course it’s not a problem to you, because it’s not something you will ever have to worry about. So I call bullshit on your pathetic attempt to defend him.

Just out of interest, have you experienced racism?

Maynehead

heavyrocker said:

@ digitalscream - to answer your subsequent point, I never once said he’s evil. He’s privileged in the sense that I can almost guarantee that he will have never, in his whole life, have experienced racism because of the colour of his skin. Just like the people commenting here who don’t see what the problem is. Of course it’s not a problem to you, because it’s not something you will ever have to worry about. So I call bullshit on your pathetic attempt to defend him.

And from which bodily orifice did you pull that assumption out of?

Bridgehouse

Interesting fact - I’m white and have experienced racism.

At university I walked into a reading room at the library, which was full of Malaysians at that particular time having a get together (unofficially - They hadn’t booked it or anything).

Two of them came up to me and said “you’d best leave - we don’t want your type in here.”

I assumed they weren’t talking about the fact I went in there to read a history text.. I reported it to the university and they rather usefully “sent someone to have a word”. I heard nothing else on the matter.

darthed1981

Bridgehouse said:

Interesting fact - I’m white and have experienced racism.

At university I walked into a reading room at the library, which was full of Malaysians at that particular time having a get together (unofficially - They hadn’t booked it or anything).

Two of them came up to me and said “you’d best leave - we don’t want your type in here.”

I assumed they weren’t talking about the fact I went in there to read a history text.. I reported it to the university and they rather usefully “sent someone to have a word”. I heard nothing else on the matter.

They just didn't like Bassists?

heavyrocker

Maynehead said:

heavyrocker said:

@ digitalscream - to answer your subsequent point, I never once said he’s evil. He’s privileged in the sense that I can almost guarantee that he will have never, in his whole life, have experienced racism because of the colour of his skin. Just like the people commenting here who don’t see what the problem is. Of course it’s not a problem to you, because it’s not something you will ever have to worry about. So I call bullshit on your pathetic attempt to defend him.

And from which bodily orifice did you pull that assumption out of?

The same one you used to make that inane co,ment.

PolarityMan

digitalscream said:

He's saying that he's ashamed of what he thought and did (which, much as a lot of folk don't want to admit it, is actually something that goes along with growing up - and he's have 40 years of growing up between then and now), and he's bringing it up in the context of "We, as a society, need to be more aware of this".

The first thing that came to mind when I heard the interview is that what he thought and did isn't anything particularly unusual in this day and age. Worse, it's actually encouraged. How many times have you seen social media mobs of the unintelligent screaming for generalised violence when they see something bad? It happens all the fucking time. It's the same as the way you see people rejoicing in somebody's death because they said/did something they didn't like.

Don't believe me? Haven't ever come across it? Well, I can think of at least five threads on this very forum full of it, and I'm pretty sure that's barely scratching the surface - and, from memory, there were at least a few people involved who are condemning Neeson here.

This is something that needs addressing, and yes - my take away from the context of his interview wasn't that he's seeking absolution for what he did (I genuinely don't think he is); he was clearly (and explicitly) trying to get people in general to be more aware of the existence of this kind of bullshit.

In that respect, he's right. Whether you like him, or whether you think he's right/wrong/evil to have brought it up, is irrelevant.

Yeah the ridiculous antifa movement for example. Liam News on is getting a very undeserved hammering in the press imo.

Bellycaster

PC_Dave said:

I still wouldn’t fuck with him, or any of his family... he does possess a unique set of skills, after all....

He'd have been handy to sort those noisy Twats in that Hotel Bar the other night