The Mandalorian

brooom

digitalscream said:

fretmeister said:

Cancel culture is just a re-badging of actions having consequences.

It isn't, though, is it? It's a combination of actions having consequences and mob rule.

And that mob can't argue with actual arguments that change people's minds, it argues by doxxing, destroying people's private lives and wrecking their professional lives.

she did however make the choice of exposing her opinions to the so called mob. She could've just as easily chosen not to do it and keep her opinions to her circle of known people.

darthed1981

fretmeister said:

digitalscream said:

crunchman said:

They will probably be going in a different direction in series 3 anyway, with all the stuff about the dark sabre and the throne of Mandalore.  Won't be hard to write her out.  That may have been the plan anyway.

Maybe, but there was supposed to be a spinoff with Cara Dune in it, wasn't there?

I miss the days when people were hired and fired based on how well they could do their job.

I miss the days when people were sufficiently educated to realise that not being popular for their political views is not the same as being a Jew in Nazi Germany.

Perfectly put.

DiscoStu

barnstorm said:

I've rarely turned off a film as quickly as I did Haywire. I had low expectations going in, but I've never seen a worse actress as the lead in a major film. Has she improved enough since then that this is actually a loss to the show?

It's not so much her acting ability, it's more her screen presence that works so well on the show. Her physical shape and doing her own fight scenes make her stand out more than others. I wouldn't say she's brought multiple layers to her character but if a young girl wants to see a strong female who can handle herself on the telly then she was it.
But yes, replaceable.

darthed1981

digitalscream said:

crunchman said:

They will probably be going in a different direction in series 3 anyway, with all the stuff about the dark sabre and the throne of Mandalore.  Won't be hard to write her out.  That may have been the plan anyway.

Maybe, but there was supposed to be a spinoff with Cara Dune in it, wasn't there?

I miss the days when people were hired and fired based on how well they could do their job.

She should have known better than to post that publicly when working for Disney, she really should.

We can all get sacked for bringing our employer into disrepute.

Brio

She was batshit brilliant in Haywire.

darthed1981

brooom said:

she did however make the choice of exposing her opinions to the so called mob. She could've just as easily chosen not to do it and keep her opinions to her circle of known people.

Well also she could have just said...

"Conservative opinions remain valid political opinions, I'm not a bad person because I voted trump or believe in a flat tax, and the way conservative opinions are treated online by some people is disrespectful..."

... and she would still be on the call list for Mando season 3...

stickyfiddle

@darthed1981 exactly. Given she was already called out part way through 2020 (and apparently only kept on because Favreau pled with Disney) she already had a warning. 

No one is saying she can’t believe whatever the fuck she wants but you can be damn sure any Disney contract for stars and top-line producers, show runners has a “noontime say stupid shit online with brings the company into disrepute” clause. All she had to do was stop tweeting. 

digitalscream

brooom said:

she did however make the choice of exposing her opinions to the so called mob. She could've just as easily chosen not to do it and keep her opinions to her circle of known people.

The trouble is, that's pretty close to victim-blaming.

"Ssshhh...just keep quiet, make sure nobody notices you, and you'll be safe"

Grumpyrocker said:

fretmeister said:

Cancel culture is just a re-badging of actions having consequences.

This. There's no real cancel culture.

Of course there isn't....as long as you disagree with/don't like the people who're being cancelled.

Grumpyrocker

Losing your job for shitty behaviour isn't being cancelled.

We mostly hear about cancel culture from right-wing loons who have TV shows, radio programmes, and lucrative newspaper columns - about how they are being silenced. And their willing audience lap it all up. 

Being called out for being a bigot. Suffering the consequences of opinions which liken their hissy fit to one of the greatest moments of suffering the human race has inflicted is not being cancelled.

The only people I regular see complaining about cancel culture are people with opinions based on harming others, either through their words and actions, who want the freedom to continue to hate and harm. No one is being silenced or being cancelled, we thankfully now live in a world where finally people have to face up to their actions. Actions that have, and do continue to, cause suffering in others. 

It's a learning moment. And whining about cancel culture is avoiding learning that lesson. 

digitalscream

Grumpyrocker said:

The only people I regular see complaining about cancel culture are people with opinions based on harming others, either through their words and actions, who want the freedom to continue to hate and harm. No one is being silenced or being cancelled, we thankfully now live in a world where finally people have to face up to their actions. Actions that have, and do continue to, cause suffering in others. 

I'm complaining about it, and I've done so every time it's come up.

So...which of my opinions are "based on harming others, either through <my> words <or> actions"?

Is it possible that some of your assumptions are wrong?

brooom

darthed1981 said:

brooom said:

she did however make the choice of exposing her opinions to the so called mob. She could've just as easily chosen not to do it and keep her opinions to her circle of known people.

Well also she could have just said...

"Conservative opinions remain valid political opinions, I'm not a bad person because I voted trump or believe in a flat tax, and the way conservative opinions are treated online by some people is disrespectful..."

... and she would still be on the call list for Mando season 3...

Of course, and that's her choice and her problem. Can't really blame the mob there.

digitalscream said:

 The trouble is, that's pretty close to victim-blaming.

"Ssshhh...just keep quiet, make sure nobody notices you, and you'll be safe"

I don't think that's what this is about at all. It's about having some common sense in regards to what you share with strangers. Especially lots of them.

tanihhiavlt

My issue with cancelling is its the mardy "voting with my feet" mentality. It works fine when you're buying something so people fetish it. Far easier than fixing a thing stomp a foot and close your eyes till it goes away.

Its clear this was a warm up for booting Bill Barr too, I would not be amazed to find Kathleen Kennedy using this as an excuse to be an advisor in all things star wars again - noone understands the self appointed Diana Moon Glampers like her.

People get distracted by the finger pointing at the moon, Carano is an ex-MMA fighter "using words good" is not on her CV, she is pointing out the obvious: there is a dangerous division that isn't getting addressed. She's not Hopkins (claiming to be a victim).

It is hard to call, we don't want hard right apologists they've utterly ruined this country for generations. We don't want fascism sneaking in, but ignoring it and denying it only reduces our awareness of its prevalence and allowed people like Farrage and Trump to gain a following.

Shes just an MMA fighter who has lost her job at Disney for mentioning the holocaust.

TimmyO

"cancel culture" is, imo, an attempt to pejoratively label something to avoid having to engage meaningfully in the real issue. 

Same as "snowflake", "social justice warrior", "millennial" - it's an attempt to characterise something you don't like as something that's so obviously negative, wrong or prejudiced that it doesn't need properly engaging with. 

Again imo: lobbing the terms around is declaring yourself out of the discussion, but wanting to appear still in it  

digitalscream

brooom said:

digitalscream said:

 The trouble is, that's pretty close to victim-blaming.

"Ssshhh...just keep quiet, make sure nobody notices you, and you'll be safe"

I don't think that's what this is about at all. It's about having some common sense about what you share with strangers. Especially lots of them.

I would agree with you, except this isn't the first time she's been targeted by the mob. The first time, as I recall, was when she was being nagged for not putting preferred pronouns on her Twitter profile, so she put "Beep-Boop" as an amusing alternative to "binary", and the mob descended on her demanding for her to be fired for being transphobic.

Then they did the same, calling her a Nazi sympathiser for putting a photo up of that one guy who refused to salute Hitler.

Point is...she was already a target, and it didn't matter what she said because they were looking for something to get her cancelled, and they'd always eventually find one that hit the mark.

This is my exact point about 80% of people on here. If even one person is motivated and looking for a reason, they'll find one. When there are hundreds or thousands of them, it just happens quicker.

Incidentally, the day anybody gets fired exclusively for something they've said on here is the day that this entire forum goes offline.

tanihhiavlt

TimmyO said:

"cancel culture" is, imo, an attempt to pejoratively label something to avoid having to engage meaningfully in the real issue. 

Same as "snowflake", "social justice warrior", "millennial" - it's an attempt to characterise something you don't like as something that's so obviously negative, wrong or prejudiced that it doesn't need properly engaging with. 

Again imo: lobbing the terms around is declaring yourself out of the discussion, but wanting to appear still in it  

I do believe there are people who expect to change the world by attacking easy targets in society. I think that kind of stupidity is great news for manipulative powerful people.

Cancel culture does exist, Cambridge Analyitica persuaded the African Young voters of Trinidad and Tobago to note vote in protest of a corrupt system, as a result the People's Partnership romped home and paid SCL a large sum of money.

People are mistaking consumerism for activism and are being controlled by a largely anonymous group on social media, like the Republican voters in 2016 fed a lot of disinformation and opinions to further an agenda.

I believe if Carano is a victim of something its challenging the divisiveness of social media, thankfully the goons its given the monitor sash to were on hand to bifurcate from the message around healing division and focus on Godwin law oh no wait they ignored that (a troubling first) and decided that having unpopular opinions is fair reason to demand someone's resignation... I mean it works in government so clearly it should apply to people doing important stuff like making a TV show too.

crunchman

Thinking about this, and reading what has been said above, the comments about the Jews were stupid but I'm not sure it's a sacking offence.  Disney could have issued a statement that they were her personal views, and did not reflect the company's values.

I'm sure there are hundreds of people who work in their theme parks, back office, and production, who share similar views to Gina Carano.  Are they all going to be sacked?  This does smack of giving into mob rule.

darthed1981

digitalscream said:

True enough, and I'm not arguing that her comments were anything other than objectionable tripe.

The problem with cancel culture is...if everybody was subject to it, then it wouldn't happen. For example, I get to see the change log on here, and I'd hazard an educated guess that at least 80% of the regulars have posted an opinion, a joke or even a passing turn of phrase that would get them cancelled if they were more famous.

Of course, almost everybody in that 80% thinks they would be in the other 20%. And that's the joke.

I think we have all posted things online and regretted it, and anyone who doesn't sympathise a bit with Gina is probably being unfair.  Given her value to Disney, it's surprising she didn't have some social media training, it MUST be a thing they offer their stars.

It's a damn shame she won't be back as she had made a great character much loved by the fans, which we all know isn't easy (cough Rey cough) and it will leave a whole in the series that are upcoming.

I find myself torn on "cancel culture", as it is part of a movement that led to some very necessary and shocking revelations, and I can't help but feel that maybe it needs some discernment, perhaps with these recent revelations (to put it into perspective)...

Should never work again except maybe digging ditches on a chain gang...

Marilyn Manson

the guy from LostProphets

etc...

Quiet retirement needed

Joss Whedon

JK Rowling

Graham Linehan

Perhaps we forgive her if she says sorry?

Gina Carano

fretmeister

crunchman said:

Thinking about this, and reading what has been said above, the comments about the Jews were stupid but I'm not sure it's a sacking offence.  Disney could have issued a statement that they were her personal views, and did not reflect the company's values.

I'm sure there are hundreds of people who work in their theme parks, back office, and production, who share similar views to Gina Carano.  Are they all going to be sacked?  This does smack of giving into mob rule.

It's about her 5th offence.

She's been spoken to before and she's ignored it.

darthed1981

fretmeister said:

crunchman said:

Thinking about this, and reading what has been said above, the comments about the Jews were stupid but I'm not sure it's a sacking offence.  Disney could have issued a statement that they were her personal views, and did not reflect the company's values.

I'm sure there are hundreds of people who work in their theme parks, back office, and production, who share similar views to Gina Carano.  Are they all going to be sacked?  This does smack of giving into mob rule.

It's about her 5th offence.

She's been spoken to before and she's ignored it.

I think that's what did it to be honest, last straw.

digitalscream

fretmeister said:

crunchman said:

Thinking about this, and reading what has been said above, the comments about the Jews were stupid but I'm not sure it's a sacking offence.  Disney could have issued a statement that they were her personal views, and did not reflect the company's values.

I'm sure there are hundreds of people who work in their theme parks, back office, and production, who share similar views to Gina Carano.  Are they all going to be sacked?  This does smack of giving into mob rule.

It's about her 5th offence.

She's been spoken to before and she's ignored it.

Only if you count things like the pronouns non-issue and the photo which was deliberately misread in order to make an issue out of it, as detailed above.

In fact, can you define "offence" in this context, and list the problems with what she's supposed to have done with no ambiguity or tortured misreading of her words?

And...can you honestly say that you definitely think this would've happened if she was espousing liberal views in the same way, as opposed to conservative views?