2020 Fretboard Virtual Running Club

Rich210

PolarityMan said:

Rich210 said:

Flanging_Fred said:

Thank you everyone for all the advice. There is a lot there to take in.  I’ve was following the c25k pretty accurately, only running 3 timed a week with rest days. A couple of times I redid a week as it was getting difficult.

I think in terms of weight I think I need to shift a couple of stone, not massive, but not insignificant either.

Interesting that some of the advice here contradicts what c25k says.  On the podcast it says to plant your heel on the ground first, is this incorrect?

Yeah it is incorrect, natural running should be on the forefoot. HOWEVER, if you tried running like that all the time  you're bound to get injured really quickly. Heel planting to start is a safer bet for people that are just getting into it. But because you say your knee is aggrevated from the running I'd recommend you introduce a little bit of running on your forefoot as well as what you're used to. 

It does take time to build up to it, there might be some plans out there but you could just use some common sense like a minute of walking a minute of running heel to toe and 30 seconds of forefoot plant. Or even less time duration and more walking. Have a look for some videos on technique I'm pretty sure Newton running shoes website will have a good demo, their trainers are designed around that running philosophy. 

Just remember though because the technique is different you'll be using different muscles in your legs, so if you started doing squats but your really good at deadlifts, you're not going to squatting big weights because those muscles aren't conditioned. 

The annoying thing about running for most people is injury susceptibility, but that's usually down to a combination of poor technique, preexisting issues, and over doing it. If you're not feeling up to an actual run just go for a decent walk, it all counts. You'll soon build up endurance. 

Id have thought runnong on the forefoot is only really plausible past a certain pace as well, at 10k/hr its doable for me but any lower and its pretty uncomfortable due to shorter stride length. Above about 12 and its basically essential. 

I never run quickly. You basically just lean forwards until you feel like you're about to fall over then set off with a job while keeping your weight forward. When you're running it's useful to think not just about your legs, they obviously propel you but the rest of your body needs to have stability and good posture which is why it's important to lift your body up by engaging the muscles in your body in a similar way to sitting up right. It's a bit weird to begin with, but it's worth practicing and building up over time. It's a much more efficient way of running and your foot strike on the ground is a lot lighter - so much less jarring going through your knees and hips. 

I just had some videos playing in the background and I thought this was a good one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kGESn8ArrU

I'm not that fussed about how many miles I run at the moment just as long as I progressively can run a little bit further week on week at the minute. I do some morning exercises to mimic a longer run, like doing some squats just to work the muscle a bit without putting too much strain on the joints. 

mcsdan

The helium balloon tied to top of the head (mentioned previously) is a great cue to getting posture right.  It's normally taught to beginner runners since it fixes alot of potential problems very quickly.

mcsdan

5.25 miles this afternoon with my daughter. Was supposed to be an "early" 8am run to avoid the heat but she laid in! So changed to 1pm and eventually became 2:30pm ish. All off road with lots of cover from trees so didn't actually feel that hot.

She has done well going from nothing to easily doing 5 mile runs now and off road. We've spoke about doing a 10km with her once races are available again. Won't go any further distance with her but trying to get some faster sections into the runs to help with progress - fartleks as opposed to intervals. Sneaky way to incorporate some speed work into a run and much more fun.

mcsdan

oh as far as shoes go, I flip between hoka, altra and inov8s.  The hokas are generally around 4mm drop. Altras are zero drop and inov8s are either 3mm or zero. I've done long distance in the altras without problem and my preferred choice but I'm building back up atm so have to be a tad careful with the altra's zero drop. I've 15 miles in them without issue recently and will use on my next long run. All about letting the calves and achilles adjust.

If you like roomy trainers check out Altras. Most are neutral too but there are a couple with some extra "guidance" as opposed to support.

Rich210

mcsdan said:

oh as far as shoes go, I flip between hoka, altra and inov8s.  The hokas are generally around 4mm drop. Altras are zero drop and inov8s are either 3mm or zero. I've done long distance in the altras without problem and my preferred choice but I'm building back up atm so have to be a tad careful with the altra's zero drop. I've 15 miles in them without issue recently and will use on my next long run. All about letting the calves and achilles adjust.

If you like roomy trainers check out Altras. Most are neutral too but there are a couple with some extra "guidance" as opposed to support.

Cool I run in newtons and some innov8 roclite's at the minute, the innovates are borderline but with the them laced up to open up the box they great. I wanted them so I could tackle mud and road fairly well, they're a wicked show! Years ago I had some bare access merrils that were good and I destroyed them, they were so roomy it was ridiculous! 15 miles is a great run on zero drops! Just takes a bit of time to get up there. There was this guy at Stockport that did ultras in barefoot shoes - he was a light as a feather whippet mind!

mcsdan

Rich210 said:

mcsdan said:

oh as far as shoes go, I flip between hoka, altra and inov8s.  The hokas are generally around 4mm drop. Altras are zero drop and inov8s are either 3mm or zero. I've done long distance in the altras without problem and my preferred choice but I'm building back up atm so have to be a tad careful with the altra's zero drop. I've 15 miles in them without issue recently and will use on my next long run. All about letting the calves and achilles adjust.

If you like roomy trainers check out Altras. Most are neutral too but there are a couple with some extra "guidance" as opposed to support.

Cool I run in newtons and some innov8 roclite's at the minute, the innovates are borderline but with the them laced up to open up the box they great. I wanted them so I could tackle mud and road fairly well, they're a wicked show! Years ago I had some bare access merrils that were good and I destroyed them, they were so roomy it was ridiculous! 15 miles is a great run on zero drops! Just takes a bit of time to get up there. There was this guy at Stockport that did ultras in barefoot shoes - he was a light as a feather whippet mind!

Not tried newtons but been an inov8 fan since I started running. TBH mostly winter/muddy season for the inov8s although do have some terraultras that are zero drop and a bit of cushion for this time of year. I tend to go hoka/altra this time of year. The 15 miles in the altras from a couple of weeks ago but I have run 2 100 miler races purely in Altras without issue. Just aware after some time out that calves need a little time to adjust back!

Not sure I'd do a long ultra barefoot though. Hard enough on the feet with some protection as it is! lol

Redlester

Bloody Nora. I had to get my run in earlier than planned. I may as well have sat in a sauna. Stinking hot, park jam packed, and all round pretty fraught. At times I was jockeying around trying to keep away from people like I was on the M25 on a Friday evening. 

On the plus side I must have sweated off most of this afternoon’s tea and chocolate, and my new Mizunos make me bounce along like Neil Armstrong. 

Rich210

mcsdan said:

Rich210 said:

mcsdan said:

oh as far as shoes go, I flip between hoka, altra and inov8s.  The hokas are generally around 4mm drop. Altras are zero drop and inov8s are either 3mm or zero. I've done long distance in the altras without problem and my preferred choice but I'm building back up atm so have to be a tad careful with the altra's zero drop. I've 15 miles in them without issue recently and will use on my next long run. All about letting the calves and achilles adjust.

If you like roomy trainers check out Altras. Most are neutral too but there are a couple with some extra "guidance" as opposed to support.

Cool I run in newtons and some innov8 roclite's at the minute, the innovates are borderline but with the them laced up to open up the box they great. I wanted them so I could tackle mud and road fairly well, they're a wicked show! Years ago I had some bare access merrils that were good and I destroyed them, they were so roomy it was ridiculous! 15 miles is a great run on zero drops! Just takes a bit of time to get up there. There was this guy at Stockport that did ultras in barefoot shoes - he was a light as a feather whippet mind!

Not tried newtons but been an inov8 fan since I started running. TBH mostly winter/muddy season for the inov8s although do have some terraultras that are zero drop and a bit of cushion for this time of year. I tend to go hoka/altra this time of year. The 15 miles in the altras from a couple of weeks ago but I have run 2 100 miler races purely in Altras without issue. Just aware after some time out that calves need a little time to adjust back!

Not sure I'd do a long ultra barefoot though. Hard enough on the feet with some protection as it is! lol

I've gone through a couple of pairs of Newtons and I rate them, I picked up a pair or 'Sir Newtons' off ebay that were like new to get back into running again, they've got more in the heal than normal I thought I'd better start with something a bit less aggressive when on the road. If I keep it up well and push further I'll have a look at the altras. Innov8 do one called a terraultra which I really wanted but just couldn't get a good fit with them!

Redlester said:

Bloody Nora. I had to get my run in earlier than planned. I may as well have sat in a sauna. Stinking hot, park jam packed, and all round pretty fraught. At times I was jockeying around trying to keep away from people like I was on the M25 on a Friday evening. 

On the plus side I must have sweated off most of this afternoon’s tea and chocolate, and my new Mizunos make me bounce along like Neil Armstrong. 

Nothing like new trainer feeling! Certainly helps when stuck in all that traffic! 

Deadman

Too hot for me. I'm even sweating buckets with my daily push up routine here!

joneve

5 hot miles last night for my first run of the week. Desperately trying hard to improve form each time I run. I sit at a desk all day so have VERY rounded shoulders/posture, so I make a point of trying to to feel like I "pinch" my shoulder blades together to get me more upright, which seems to be helping. 

Trying to stop heel striking consistently is another matter entirely! The Saucony's I have now are less of a drop than the Asics I was wearing before, so makes it much easier to feel like I'm striking on the mid foot, but still not doing it consistently without thinking about it. 

Still aching to buggery the next day, mostly lower back, and I think mostly attributed to weak glutes and my back overcompensating for them! Just have to keep being consistent with my stretching/rollering each night. I should probably do some squats and other work to try and strengthen the glutes too.

On a different subject; RUNNING MACHINES/TREADMILLS can anyone offer any advice? With the relatively recent introduction of Zwift running, I'm keen to get one for the winter months and days where I just can't get out the house (as wife is at netball training or whatever), but still be able to track my miles on Strava. I need to sort my garage first so it's a "nicer" space to be (currently spider infested and crap dumped everywhere), but does anyone have any first hand experience? Brands to look for/avoid and the key to finding a solid treadmill at a good price (new or used). 

Redlester

@joneve ;
I’m probably going to jinx myself saying this but... 

When I was into running about 7-8 years ago I kept getting minor niggles (calf muscles, hamstrings) and then got a real nasty that put me out of the game and put me right off (tendon trouble). 

I got back into running mainly for cardio exercise last August (see my post yesterday). 

I mainly stick to a mixture of pavement and dirt paths. I run between 45 and 60 mins each time. I don’t worry about distance, I mainly focus on time and completing a circuit. 

I’m really rubbish at warming up and calling down, but I try to make some effort with both. 

I probably go out every other day (depending if I can face the crowds in the my local park!). 

I don’t worry about speed either. For me running is an excuse to get outside, get some cardio exercise in and build up endurance generally. I suppose my attitude to it is almost like a boxer’s with ‘roadwork’, and to that end I focus on keeping going with a ‘boxer’s shuffle’- slowish but steady and consistent. 

I found posture takes care of itself the more I run. 

No injuries so far since August- just the odd muscle twinge in the right calf. 

Whats really worked for me compared to previously Is this: running is not my only or my main form of exercise. Last summer I got hold of an exercise DVD based on HIIT exercises. There are various routines focusing on upper body, core, lower body, and a combination. I do at least one exercise session from that every day and mix them up. I do wonder if that has helped with the running and vice-versa. 

So I’m just a crap runner basically, but as and when I feel a niggle coming on now I know that I can have a bit of time away to prevent over straining and have other things to fall back on to help keep fit. 




 

mcsdan

joneve said:

5 hot miles last night for my first run of the week. Desperately trying hard to improve form each time I run. I sit at a desk all day so have VERY rounded shoulders/posture, so I make a point of trying to to feel like I "pinch" my shoulder blades together to get me more upright, which seems to be helping. 

I sit all day at work too. I now having a standing desk that lets me lower or raise it. Like this.

Obviously that's not me in the photo Helps to just change position a few times a day.

Also have a yoga mat and block plus a hard ball to help roll out any aches.  Couple of mins of stretches here and there adds up.

joneve said:

On a different subject; RUNNING MACHINES/TREADMILLS can anyone offer any advice? With the relatively recent introduction of Zwift running, I'm keen to get one for the winter months and days where I just can't get out the house (as wife is at netball training or whatever), but still be able to track my miles on Strava. I need to sort my garage first so it's a "nicer" space to be (currently spider infested and crap dumped everywhere), but does anyone have any first hand experience? Brands to look for/avoid and the key to finding a solid treadmill at a good price (new or used). 

I've got a Nordictrak treadmill in my garage. Had for about 10 years and seems fine for what I need. TBH I tend to go out running all weathers but is useful to do a mile or two on it after a squat session to get the legs moving. I find they recover quicker then. Also use it for a few weeks in the winter when the weather is too cold and affects my asthma.

joneve

mcsdan said:

joneve said:

5 hot miles last night for my first run of the week. Desperately trying hard to improve form each time I run. I sit at a desk all day so have VERY rounded shoulders/posture, so I make a point of trying to to feel like I "pinch" my shoulder blades together to get me more upright, which seems to be helping. 

I sit all day at work too. I now having a standing desk that lets me lower or raise it. Like this.

Obviously that's not me in the photo Helps to just change position a few times a day.

Also have a yoga mat and block plus a hard ball to help roll out any aches.  Couple of mins of stretches here and there adds up.

joneve said:

On a different subject; RUNNING MACHINES/TREADMILLS can anyone offer any advice? With the relatively recent introduction of Zwift running, I'm keen to get one for the winter months and days where I just can't get out the house (as wife is at netball training or whatever), but still be able to track my miles on Strava. I need to sort my garage first so it's a "nicer" space to be (currently spider infested and crap dumped everywhere), but does anyone have any first hand experience? Brands to look for/avoid and the key to finding a solid treadmill at a good price (new or used). 

I've got a Nordictrak treadmill in my garage. Had for about 10 years and seems fine for what I need. TBH I tend to go out running all weathers but is useful to do a mile or two on it after a squat session to get the legs moving. I find they recover quicker then. Also use it for a few weeks in the winter when the weather is too cold and affects my asthma.

Thanks mate. Not sur how that woman is getting any work done with her MacBook closed
Standing desk is a good idea, might look into investing in one, as I doubt work would buy me one.  I try and get up regularly for pee breaks and to top up my water so I'm not sat down the whole day. 

I'm trying to get more consistent at stretching and rolling each night. My wife also bought me an acupressure mat which seems to be helping (and helping me sleep a bit better) too. Just need to stay consistent with it. 

I much prefer to run outside, but a treadmill is good for some shorter winter runs, or as I say when I'm on dad duty and he's asleep whilst Wife is at netball and I can't go out. Plus the shock absorbency will help the ageing joints  

Rich210

Had my light run today, which probably worked out to 1.5km before i thought better to enjoy a good walk round my circuit and up the hill! Just felt a tiny twinge in my ankle and thought what the hell, lets walk this one off! I think I'm just gonna see what happens with oscillating between 2.5k and 1.5k for the next week and see how the body feels before a taking a day or two off for a longer run. 

quarky

I normally just get whatever shoes are on special at Sports Direct or similar. My current ones are some NIke RUNALLDAY shoes. I normally run about twice a week (use a treadmill when less than 5 degrees), and both typically 6km, or occasionally one will be 10km, or I might do three runs in a week. 

I don't get injured often (not for a few years actually). 

Would going for more specialist shoes make much difference  at my level, or am I better just sticking with what seems to work at the moment?

Deadman

No running this week. Just masses of diy (sagging bedroom floor joist rebuild fwiw) and 200 push ups each day.

Start weight 6 Jan 14st. Current weight 11 st 4 lbs.

Rich210

@quarky I think the most important thing is shoes that are well shaped to your foot. I do have a cheap pair of new balance trainers that I got because they had really good lugs for doing some running through fields. They are a bit crap tbh. I get issues in my feet the I don't get from running in other trainers.  They're not my only pair and are ok for short distances but I wouldn't wear them day after day.

Rich210

Managed the run this morning! Not quite the 2.5km I set out yesterday but I did a load of dumbbell squats this morning! Feeling stronger!

Deadman

Nice one, Rich. I find doubling up with upper body strength training to be really beneficial. My 'core' is so much stronger. All my aches and pains have vanished too.

Rich210

Yeah I was doing some snatches too, really good whole body exercise, and great for the hips!