Bastard Evil Dog Things!

Headphones

I was attacked by two heinous beasts on my evening cycle ride.

Cycling across the park (an old cobbled road) a fat, black dog streaked towards me, I took it to be chasing an unseen ball.  It passed behind me as expected.  It then turned unseen, chased and bit my right foot, bringing me to a halt.

Its friend then charged up and I found myself in a weird dance, fending off bites from each in turn.  I managed to keep the bicycle between me and one, while the other seemed to not attack whilst I held eye contact - something of a challenge since I had two at 180 to contend with.

Their mistress (an old dear, I guess in her late sixties) ambled up and shouted at the dogs, merely exciting them (though not her intent - but shouting a name, really?).  After a few minutes of this weird dance, she walked up and fitted a lead to one.  My defence became easier and she then fitted a lead to its companion.

Judging by my route tracker, this took about four minutes.  I'd received a bite to the foot, one to each buttock and one to the calf.  The result was one scratch and damp patches for the others.  Presumably the dogs were "playing" rather than attacking - though I had no way to judge the intent.

Clearly these out of control dogs were her "children" and she was scared for how I might act - and I was strongly trempted to dial 999 and report an animal attack!

I chose to ride off - though I'm by no means sure that was right - who will they attack next?  What if it's someone frail, or a child?  She clearly has little control over them.

Too late to worry on that now I guess, but I'm left with one real question: How should I defend myself next time?

I tried to remain calm and alert and not escalate, but am now wondering whether I should have shouted and attacked in some way.

The old dear dropped her walking stick at my feet, should I have claimed it and whacked them?

Should I carry something in future?  A dog whistle? A stick?  An axe?

My wife says she experiences this regularly in the park when out running (though usually in singles which are easier to fend off), this clearly raises other questions...

Maybe it's time for an anti dog petition!

Self defence/attack thoughts welcome.

tone1

https://i.imgur.com/tPLo1D3.jpg

MattBanshee

Headphones said:

I was attacked by two heinous beasts on my evening cycle ride.

Cycling across the park (an old cobbled road) a fat, black dog streaked towards me, I took it to be chasing an unseen ball.  It passed behind me as expected.  It then turned unseen, chased and bit my right foot, bringing me to a halt.

Its friend then charged up and I found myself in a weird dance, fending off bites from each in turn.  I managed to keep the bicycle between me and one, while the other seemed to not attack whilst I held eye contact - something of a challenge since I had two at 180 to contend with.

Their mistress (an old dear, I guess in her late sixties) ambled up and shouted at the dogs, merely exciting them (though not her intent - but shouting a name, really?).  After a few minutes of this weird dance, she walked up and fitted a lead to one.  My defence became easier and she then fitted a lead to its companion.

Judging by my route tracker, this took about four minutes.  I'd received a bite to the foot, one to each buttock and one to the calf.  The result was one scratch and damp patches for the others.  Presumably the dogs were "playing" rather than attacking - though I had no way to judge the intent.

Clearly these out of control dogs were her "children" and she was scared for how I might act - and I was strongly trempted to dial 999 and report an animal attack!

I chose to ride off - though I'm by no means sure that was right - who will they attack next?  What if it's someone frail, or a child?  She clearly has little control over them.

Too late to worry on that now I guess, but I'm left with one real question: How should I defend myself next time?

I tried to remain calm and alert and not escalate, but am now wondering whether I should have shouted and attacked in some way.

The old dear dropped her walking stick at my feet, should I have claimed it and whacked them?

Should I carry something in future?  A dog whistle? A stick?  An axe?

My wife says she experiences this regularly in the park when out running (though usually in singles which are easier to fend off), this clearly raises other questions...

Maybe it's time for an anti dog petition!

Self defence/attack thoughts welcome.

You don't. You call the police. In fact, you should still do so and report it.

This time, it was you on a bike. Next time, it'll be a little kiddie with a ball or on a tricycle or scooter.

strumjoughlamps

MattBanshee said:

Headphones said:

I was attacked by two heinous beasts on my evening cycle ride.

Cycling across the park (an old cobbled road) a fat, black dog streaked towards me, I took it to be chasing an unseen ball.  It passed behind me as expected.  It then turned unseen, chased and bit my right foot, bringing me to a halt.

Its friend then charged up and I found myself in a weird dance, fending off bites from each in turn.  I managed to keep the bicycle between me and one, while the other seemed to not attack whilst I held eye contact - something of a challenge since I had two at 180 to contend with.

Their mistress (an old dear, I guess in her late sixties) ambled up and shouted at the dogs, merely exciting them (though not her intent - but shouting a name, really?).  After a few minutes of this weird dance, she walked up and fitted a lead to one.  My defence became easier and she then fitted a lead to its companion.

Judging by my route tracker, this took about four minutes.  I'd received a bite to the foot, one to each buttock and one to the calf.  The result was one scratch and damp patches for the others.  Presumably the dogs were "playing" rather than attacking - though I had no way to judge the intent.

Clearly these out of control dogs were her "children" and she was scared for how I might act - and I was strongly trempted to dial 999 and report an animal attack!

I chose to ride off - though I'm by no means sure that was right - who will they attack next?  What if it's someone frail, or a child?  She clearly has little control over them.

Too late to worry on that now I guess, but I'm left with one real question: How should I defend myself next time?

I tried to remain calm and alert and not escalate, but am now wondering whether I should have shouted and attacked in some way.

The old dear dropped her walking stick at my feet, should I have claimed it and whacked them?

Should I carry something in future?  A dog whistle? A stick?  An axe?

My wife says she experiences this regularly in the park when out running (though usually in singles which are easier to fend off), this clearly raises other questions...

Maybe it's time for an anti dog petition!

Self defence/attack thoughts welcome.

You don't. You call the police. In fact, you should still do so and report it.

This time, it was you on a bike. Next time, it'll be a little kiddie with a ball or on a tricycle or scooter.

This this and this.

Funkfingers

Early editions of Richard’s Bicycle Book by Richard Ballantine gave precise instructions on how to “pacify” an attacking dog.

This was expurgated from later editions for fear of upsetting people who value pets more highly than humans.

Regrettably, the technique involves getting your forearm slobbered on for up to four minutes. It has a maximum capacity of two at a time. 

For more than two attacking dogs, you need some means to strike them. Hitting or prodding sensitive areas might dissuade some. When defending small children, lethal force is reasonable.

Report the incident. That way, when the dogs attack again, it becomes more likely that they will be taken away from their irresponsible/incapable owner.

TTony

Right then, for a bit of balance as a dog owner ....

MattBanshee said. 

You don't. You call the police. In fact, you should still do so and report it.

.... this.


You can no more wander around a public place with out of control dogs than you can with a loaded shotgun on a hair trigger with a twitchy finger.

Sorry.  Mrs Old Lady either gets a 100% effective recall* on her dogs, or she keeps them on-lead in public places.




* no such thing.

TTony

tone1 said:

Nothing useful to contribute then?

(that image is so far past its best-before date).

digitalscream

TTony said:

Right then, for a bit of balance as a dog owner ....

MattBanshee said. 

You don't. You call the police. In fact, you should still do so and report it.

.... this.


You can no more wander around a public place with out of control dogs than you can with a loaded shotgun on a hair trigger with a twitchy finger.

Sorry.  Mrs Old Lady either gets a 100% effective recall* on her dogs, or she keeps them on-lead in public places.




* no such thing.

This is it.

Except to say...the fault isn't "evil dogs", it's "an utterly incompetent owner who's overestimated her ability to influence her dogs' behaviour". For what it's worth, I fundamentally believe this is almost everybody who lets their dogs roam off-leash in a public area.

As a case in point...shouting a dog's name at them to get them to stop doing something is utterly counter-productive - either the dog doesn't see it as a command (rightly so), or they begin to associate their name with having done something wrong or, worse, a punishment - which will only heighten their state of arousal. Repeatedly shouting their name will simply escalate that state to the point where it's impossible to bring them back from it without drastic physical action.

For what it's worth, I always carry a spare slip lead around with me. In order, the reasons are:

1 - In case my dog's harness fails, or she slips out of it. She's an Akita, either are kind of an occupational hazard.

2 - In case I see a stray dog. The alternative is using my belt...and nobody needs to see me trying to catch a dog with my trousers around my ankles.

3 - In case an out-of-control dog causes a potentially-dangerous situation with my dog, a short slip lead gives me a bit more control over the situation, if I'm paying attention enough.

That's the order in which I thought I'd be using it. In actual fact, occurrences in the last five years have been:

1 - Once.
2 - Three times.
3 - I stopped counting after 10.

Snags

Another vote for calling plod, even if it feels heavy handed. If you don't have perfect recall of your dog(s) and/or you know they can get a bit feisty they just shouldn't be off lead in a public place.

I write as someone who had to spend the last few years with the opposite problem of "Why don't you let him off?" and "Can I say hello to your dog, mate?" and people not believing it would be a really dumb thing for them to do.

digitalscream

Snags said:

I write as someone who had to spend the last few years with the opposite problem of "Why don't you let him off?" and "Can I say hello to your dog, mate?" and people not believing it would be a really dumb thing for them to do.

Yep, we're the same. Our dogs get plenty of off-leash time - we hire a local field for £10/hr. It has a secure fence, and our dogs are guaranteed to be safe from everybody else.

So many folk seem to misunderstand the point of a leash. It's not to protect other people and dogs from ours - it's to protect our dogs from the world. If one of ours happens to wander off the path and hasn't seen a car coming...I can get her out of the way quickly and easily. If somebody else's dog starts a fight, I can pull her out of the way (an Akita will always be seen by the authorities as the aggressor, whether that's true or not). If somebody's getting in her personal space and she's uncomfortable, with a leash I can more easily put myself between her and the person causing the stress.

TTony

digitalscream said:

Except to say...the fault isn't "evil dogs", it's "an utterly incompetent owner who's overestimated her ability to influence her dogs' behaviour".

And I totally agree with this.

There should be some sort of dog “licence” thing.  You have to be judged competent and worthy of taking “ownership” of a dog before being allowed to do so.

But then I’d say the same about kids too ...

TheOtherDennis

Nothing to add other than to back up what everyone else has said - if you can't control your dog, don't ever let them off the lead. That old lady should not have let her dogs off the lead, the end. Her problem is that no one in authority has ever told her, so she has never listened to anyone who has told her to keep them on the lead because she just doesn't think she has any need to and she thinks it would be 'cruel' to her little babies because "they're only playing, they won't do anything to you, they're perfectly fine you know, it's your own fault for being so aggressive they're actually trying to defend themselves from you you know."

So you need to report her so that someone in proper authority can go round and lay it on the line for her. She probably still won't listen, but at least you got the message out so that if anyone else complains in the future, or has in the past, the authorities will be able to build a proper body of evidence to get something done about it.

Personally, much as I would love to, I will never let Moose off the lead for two reasons.

One, as a Husky/Malamute, he has no recall, he will simply not come back when he's called, it's a breed thing and there's an end to it. He won't run away as such, he'll just not come back. They don't (I discovered a Husky owners forum and every single one of them said the same thing).

Two, he has no self control anyway and will attack other dogs because we reckon he's never been properly socialised, he'll wander into the road and cause chaos with drivers, and so on. He won't attack people, he loves them, but through clumsiness and lack of self-awareness he will absolutely get in everyone's fucking way.

Having said that, I'm taking him to a trainer on Thursday afternoon to try to calm him down with other dogs, but I'm not overly hopeful.

@DigitalScream - I've been told there's a field like that near to me but I'm buggered if I can find out where it is, cos I'd love to let him off for a proper run (having said that, knowing Moose, he'd probably just bimble around having a quiet sniff for a couple of minutes and then lie down in the shade for the rest of the hour).

hollywoodrox

tone1 said:

https://i.imgur.com/tPLo1D3.jpg

Defo should have called  the police. You were attacked , they are a danger to society. She should be made to keep them under control or they should be destroyed

tony99

yeah, call the police with 2 staffies hanging off your ankles

the way to deal with them is to snap their legs mate, either the two front legs away from their chest, or two hind legs away from the groin, then, only then, when you're safe, you can phone the police

(some people say you should stick a finger up the dog's hoop but that's not my bag at all)

p90fool

Definitely call the police. We cancelled months' of gigs a few years ago when my wife (who's also our drummer) had a finger almost severed by a dog. 

That was one of those "don't worry, he'll probably lick you to death owners" who just cannot grasp that most dogs are very different around non family members.
 

dindude

Good to here from the responsible dog owners as stories like this make it easy to think “evil dog owners”. My wife is petrified of dogs due to a few past incidents, and my 4 year old boy is heading that way, not through anything too gruesome, but just having had a few dogs as tall as he is come up and jump up at him / lick him*

*news flash dog owners, for people who don’t like dogs, it’s not cute or endearing so please don’t assume it is and be mindful that some people are genuinely scared, I.e. get them the fuck away - I no more want to dote over your animal than I expect you to adore my children. 

robgilmo

dindude said:

Good to here from the responsible dog owners as stories like this make it easy to think “evil dog owners”. My wife is petrified of dogs due to a few past incidents, and my 4 year old boy I s heading that way, not through anything too gruesome, but just having had a few dogs as tall as he is come up and jump up at him / lick him*

*news flash dog owners, for people who don’t like dogs, it’s not cute or endearing so please don’t assume it is and be mindful that some people are genuinely scared, I.e. get them the fuck away - I no more want to dote over your animal than I expect you to adore my children. 

My wee girl is petrified after being attacked when she was younger, when dogs come loafing up to her and she is obviously distressed the owners usually say ''its Ok, they are friendly'' , yeah? Well Im not so friendly and I'll put your dog down in a heartbeat. 

dindude

robgilmo said:

dindude said:

Good to here from the responsible dog owners as stories like this make it easy to think “evil dog owners”. My wife is petrified of dogs due to a few past incidents, and my 4 year old boy I s heading that way, not through anything too gruesome, but just having had a few dogs as tall as he is come up and jump up at him / lick him*

*news flash dog owners, for people who don’t like dogs, it’s not cute or endearing so please don’t assume it is and be mindful that some people are genuinely scared, I.e. get them the fuck away - I no more want to dote over your animal than I expect you to adore my children. 

My wee girl is petrified after being attacked when she was younger, when dogs come loafing up to her and she is obviously distressed the owners usually say ''its Ok, they are friendly'' , yeah? Well Im not so friendly and I'll put your dog down in a heartbeat. 

It’s the base assumption that it’s ok that gets me, the oblivious dog owner smiling away as my entire family cower behind me.

robgilmo

dindude said:

robgilmo said:

dindude said:

Good to here from the responsible dog owners as stories like this make it easy to think “evil dog owners”. My wife is petrified of dogs due to a few past incidents, and my 4 year old boy I s heading that way, not through anything too gruesome, but just having had a few dogs as tall as he is come up and jump up at him / lick him*

*news flash dog owners, for people who don’t like dogs, it’s not cute or endearing so please don’t assume it is and be mindful that some people are genuinely scared, I.e. get them the fuck away - I no more want to dote over your animal than I expect you to adore my children. 

My wee girl is petrified after being attacked when she was younger, when dogs come loafing up to her and she is obviously distressed the owners usually say ''its Ok, they are friendly'' , yeah? Well Im not so friendly and I'll put your dog down in a heartbeat. 

It’s the base assumption that it’s ok that gets me, the oblivious dog owner smiling away as my entire family cower behind me.

I know, that smile like its such great fun and look at my lovely dog attitude, and what makes them think I want some filthy animal licking my kids?

digitalscream

tony99 said:

yeah, call the police with 2 staffies hanging off your ankles

the way to deal with them is to snap their legs mate, either the two front legs away from their chest, or two hind legs away from the groin, then, only then, when you're safe, you can phone the police

(some people say you should stick a finger up the dog's hoop but that's not my bag at all)

That's a pretty disgusting attitude. That is not the best way to deal with them.

robgilmo

digitalscream said:

tony99 said:

yeah, call the police with 2 staffies hanging off your ankles

the way to deal with them is to snap their legs mate, either the two front legs away from their chest, or two hind legs away from the groin, then, only then, when you're safe, you can phone the police

(some people say you should stick a finger up the dog's hoop but that's not my bag at all)

That's a pretty disgusting attitude. That is not the best way to deal with them.

Actually spreading their front legs is the quickest and safest way to put an aggressive dog down if its attacking you. Putting your finger in their bum Im not so sure about.