Fender John Cruz

Hattigol

danishbacon said:

Hattigol said:

p90fool said:

Lebarque said:

p90fool said:

The fact that Fender have to be more careful than most about the reputation and image of their "Masterbuilders" highlights the fact that you're not just paying for a guitar. 

You mugs.  

I know what you're saying, but have you played a masterbuilt? Not saying they're worth £6k, but the two I've tried were noticeably better than regular custom shops I've played, which in turn were better than standard lines. Clever marketing though I'll admit.

No, but I played real pre-CBS Fenders for many years so I'm not very interested in six grand reissues. 

I'm not sure how much "better" I want a Tele or Strat to be tbh, certainly not when the diminishing returns amount to a used Harley Davidson and/or a holiday.  

Good point. The diminishing returns on £6k Masterbuilts can only be marginal at best.

Stick to those £20k pre-CBS ones 

You might see your £20k back, but not your full £6k...

Fair point but I think the discussion was about diminishing returns in quality rather than residual values.

danishbacon

Hattigol said:

danishbacon said:

Hattigol said:

p90fool said:

Lebarque said:

p90fool said:

The fact that Fender have to be more careful than most about the reputation and image of their "Masterbuilders" highlights the fact that you're not just paying for a guitar. 

You mugs.  

I know what you're saying, but have you played a masterbuilt? Not saying they're worth £6k, but the two I've tried were noticeably better than regular custom shops I've played, which in turn were better than standard lines. Clever marketing though I'll admit.

No, but I played real pre-CBS Fenders for many years so I'm not very interested in six grand reissues. 

I'm not sure how much "better" I want a Tele or Strat to be tbh, certainly not when the diminishing returns amount to a used Harley Davidson and/or a holiday.  

Good point. The diminishing returns on £6k Masterbuilts can only be marginal at best.

Stick to those £20k pre-CBS ones 

You might see your £20k back, but not your full £6k...

Fair point but I think the discussion was about diminishing returns in quality rather than residual values.

True, in which case Harley Benton is ready for business.

p90fool

Hattigol said:

p90fool said:

Lebarque said:

p90fool said:

The fact that Fender have to be more careful than most about the reputation and image of their "Masterbuilders" highlights the fact that you're not just paying for a guitar. 

You mugs.  

I know what you're saying, but have you played a masterbuilt? Not saying they're worth £6k, but the two I've tried were noticeably better than regular custom shops I've played, which in turn were better than standard lines. Clever marketing though I'll admit.

No, but I played real pre-CBS Fenders for many years so I'm not very interested in six grand reissues. 

I'm not sure how much "better" I want a Tele or Strat to be tbh, certainly not when the diminishing returns amount to a used Harley Davidson and/or a holiday.  

Good point. The diminishing returns on £6k Masterbuilts can only be marginal at best.

Stick to those £20k pre-CBS ones 

I did get my £170 back when I sold my '63 though

RonnieHotdogs

His hairstyle tells me all I need to know.
Some of the posts in his FB page are hilarious. Keith Wasnok sounds like a right charmer. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216200537718066&id=1590673529

Lebarque

p90fool said:

Hattigol said:

p90fool said:

Lebarque said:

p90fool said:

The fact that Fender have to be more careful than most about the reputation and image of their "Masterbuilders" highlights the fact that you're not just paying for a guitar. 

You mugs.  

I know what you're saying, but have you played a masterbuilt? Not saying they're worth £6k, but the two I've tried were noticeably better than regular custom shops I've played, which in turn were better than standard lines. Clever marketing though I'll admit.

No, but I played real pre-CBS Fenders for many years so I'm not very interested in six grand reissues. 

I'm not sure how much "better" I want a Tele or Strat to be tbh, certainly not when the diminishing returns amount to a used Harley Davidson and/or a holiday.  

Good point. The diminishing returns on £6k Masterbuilts can only be marginal at best.

Stick to those £20k pre-CBS ones 

I did get my £170 back when I sold my '63 though

Harley Davidsons, masterbuilts... It's all mid-life crisis fodder to me. Standard Fretboarder profile. :0)

Dan_Halen

RonnieHotdogs said:

His hairstyle tells me all I need to know.
Some of the posts in his FB page are hilarious. Keith Wasnok sounds like a right charmer. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216200537718066&id=1590673529

Pretty sure judging people by how they look is the problem.

p90fool

Lebarque said:

p90fool said:

Hattigol said:

p90fool said:

Lebarque said:

p90fool said:

The fact that Fender have to be more careful than most about the reputation and image of their "Masterbuilders" highlights the fact that you're not just paying for a guitar. 

You mugs.  

I know what you're saying, but have you played a masterbuilt? Not saying they're worth £6k, but the two I've tried were noticeably better than regular custom shops I've played, which in turn were better than standard lines. Clever marketing though I'll admit.

No, but I played real pre-CBS Fenders for many years so I'm not very interested in six grand reissues. 

I'm not sure how much "better" I want a Tele or Strat to be tbh, certainly not when the diminishing returns amount to a used Harley Davidson and/or a holiday.  

Good point. The diminishing returns on £6k Masterbuilts can only be marginal at best.

Stick to those £20k pre-CBS ones 

I did get my £170 back when I sold my '63 though

Harley Davidsons, masterbuilts... It's all mid-life crisis fodder to me. Standard Fretboarder profile. :0)

Haha I haven't ridden Harleys for 15 years, but it's still my standard unit of measurement when trying to figure out why a 40 quid chopping board of alder bolted to a 50 quid stick of maple costs six thousand pounds.

Bridgehouse

p90fool said:

Haha I haven't ridden Harleys for 15 years, but it's still my standard unit of measurement when trying to figure out why a 40 quid chopping board of alder bolted to a 50 quid stick of maple costs six thousand pounds.

I like to think of it as a £6k masterbuilt is more money than a brand new Enfield Interceptor 650

I know which one I’d rather have...

Lewy

Dan_Halen said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

His hairstyle tells me all I need to know.
Some of the posts in his FB page are hilarious. Keith Wasnok sounds like a right charmer. 

https://m.facebook.com/storyDan_Halen said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

His hairstyle tells me all I need to know.
Some of the posts in his FB page are hilarious. Keith Wasnok sounds like a right charmer. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216200537718066&id=1590673529

Pretty sure judging people by how they look is the problem.

.php?story_fbid=10216200537718066&id=1590673529

Pretty sure judging people by how they look is the problem.

Not really. Unless you are of the opinion that mocking someone for things they could change is the same as discriminating against someone for things they can’t.

Dan_Halen

Lewy said:

Dan_Halen said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

His hairstyle tells me all I need to know.
Some of the posts in his FB page are hilarious. Keith Wasnok sounds like a right charmer. 

https://m.facebook.com/storyDan_Halen said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

His hairstyle tells me all I need to know.
Some of the posts in his FB page are hilarious. Keith Wasnok sounds like a right charmer. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216200537718066&id=1590673529

Pretty sure judging people by how they look is the problem.

.php?story_fbid=10216200537718066&id=1590673529

Pretty sure judging people by how they look is the problem.

Not really. Unless you are of the opinion that mocking someone for things they could change is the same as discriminating against someone for things they can’t.

Think you're clearly trolling or just after an argument. How about don't be a dick by not judging or mocking people full stop regardless of whether it's skin colour, hair cut, weight or whatever you'd like?

Aornic

On one hand, I think the post is indefensible. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's explicitly racist in nature, but it's certainly in poor taste and paints a very poor image of both John and Fender if they had continued with his employment.

On the other hand, what an awful end to a legacy with Fender. The man had worked there since 1987, making his tenure longer than my years on earth by a hair. He built one of the most iconic modern-day guitars, John Mayer's black Strat - that is imitated by so many budding relic and refinishing enthusiasts to this day even though it is mostly retired at this point. This incident might be the final nail in that coffin - and luckily for PRS I don't think anyone there besides Paul himself could cause such a similar stir in the guitar community.

I've never played a John Cruz Strat personally, but to my knowledge they were snatched up rather quickly at outlets and the waiting list for an order was anywhere between a year to three. His presence and expertise was of value - and despite the quickness of Fender's decision, I don't believe it was one taken lightly.

I checked out his Facebook, linked above in this thread, and saw he's changed his profile picture to one of him playing a Les Paul. Defiant to the end maybe?

Deijavoo

I'd buy a Cruz Fender based purely on the fact it would save me money now on a great instrument regardless of how much I disagree with his Facebook post.

I wonder how many products you bought today that are designed, built, packed, sold or delivered by people with views that are the polar opposite of yours. 

roberty

For anyone moaning about free speech, I don't know if it's common here but in the US you often have to sign a social media policy with your job contract. It's likely that he signed and subsequently broke his contract - not that you need a reason to sack employees in the US, in which case it would be an employment rights issue, not a free speech issue

Musicman20

Will the used prices go up or down?!

Seziertisch

roberty said:

For anyone moaning about free speech, I don't know if it's common here but in the US you often have to sign a social media policy with your job contract. It's likely that he signed and subsequently broke his contract - not that you need a reason to sack employees in the US, in which case it would be an employment rights issue, not a free speech issue

I’ve worked for a few US companies (in Europe) and they have all had social media policies for all employees - that is if you do or say something online that reflects badly on your employer, even if it is unrelated to work, they can fire/discipline you.