Uh oh Fender... Instagram accusations of being misogynistic

Bigsby

Teetonetal said:

Bigsby said:

I reckon, if people continue to become increasingly thin skinned, humourless and desperate to be a victim of some one else's '-ism' at the current rate, we'll have to give up using words within the next 10 or 20 years. Things will quieten down then.

I'm not sure it's massively offensive, but it's certainly not humorous. It is just old fashioned and well past it's sell by date as a concept. The post is trying to be fun, cheeky and playful and just makes fender look like a tired out of touch company.

In today's environment a marketing professional shouldn't bring that concept anywhere near any company.

It's not a question of whether it's humorous - that is subjective and not something that anyone can determine on everyone else's behalf.

It's the intention that is relevant to my post. Were Fender's words intended to offend or amuse? With a modicum of resilience and humour, plus a willingness to even consider what was intended I believe it would be hard to be genuinely offended by those words. Sure, you might still find them unfunny, out dated, naive, childish, dumb, annoying, pathetic, or many other things... but offensive?

What I was referring to was the willingness, even desire to take offence that has become so prevalent today. Having a sense of humour could really be the antidote to that, or from a different perspective, it could really get in the way whilst running to the moral high ground.

thegummy

prowla said:

There are people who just going around looking for things to get indignant about. 

I think the Carry On films are great. 

Last week at work at work a gay colleague said he really loves me in a meeting, to which I replied that I felt so gratified and all of us laughed. 

I’d hate to be in a world of grey where everybody is too scared to open their mouths in case they inadvertently say something which somebody might (deliberately) misconstrue. 

There are some things which are acknowledged to be offensive, but the PC thing can be taken too far. 

In my opinion, the Fender ad was pretty crap, but not worthy of a furore if affected indignation. 

There are a lot of people putting all their energy in to trying to make everyone's world like the grey one you describe.

It's good to read a good few posts on here with people being reasonable.

Worryingly, there are a lot more people who follow others than who work things out themselves using reason. So to avoid the real world becoming that PC nightmare we need to rely on it ceasing to be fashionable.

thegummy

I don't particularly want to go back 50 years to when those "winking uncle" jokes were popular.

Just back 10 years when a joke could just be good or shit without being a political issue.

DrJazzTap

I thought the second sentence was odd "ready to hang around your neck or sit on your knee"?

I thought the Brazilians reference was simply to do with Brazilian rosewood? 
It does look like a poor attempt at humour. I get they want to have some sort of personality injected into social media.
 You see fast food outlets and food manufacturers ribbing each other (see weetabix etc). You can also see companies standing up for equal ops on social media (see Yorkshire tea and PG) and that's handled well. I think it's best to leave comedy to the comedians, as depressing as that may be. 

dindude

I just don’t see this being a question of being offended or not, that’s way too basic an argument. It’s not offensive, just massively out of step, with the sort of innuendo I would have rolled my eyes at 20 years ago. 

westford

It’s just banter, right? 

In isolation, yeah. But when you are getting messages like that from all over, all the time, it builds and it builds and you end up with a bunch of men who think women only exist for their gratification and a bunch of women who think that’s all they’re worth.

It is tiresome.

sticker

I mean it makes sense that Fender’s marketing attitudes are placed firmly in the past ...as all of their decent designs are ....

IsambardKentucky

Top bants in the FCS master builders corner

thegummy

dindude said:

I just don’t see this being a question of being offended or not, that’s way too basic an argument. It’s not offensive, just massively out of step, with the sort of innuendo I would have rolled my eyes at 20 years ago. 

If everyone accepted that it was just rubbish banter then no one could call for it to be censored just on the basis of low quality comedy.

That's why the "offense" thing comes out, that then enables some people to exert their power on the situation and demand it gets censored.

Teetonetal

Bigsby said:

Teetonetal said:

Bigsby said:

I reckon, if people continue to become increasingly thin skinned, humourless and desperate to be a victim of some one else's '-ism' at the current rate, we'll have to give up using words within the next 10 or 20 years. Things will quieten down then.

I'm not sure it's massively offensive, but it's certainly not humorous. It is just old fashioned and well past it's sell by date as a concept. The post is trying to be fun, cheeky and playful and just makes fender look like a tired out of touch company.

In today's environment a marketing professional shouldn't bring that concept anywhere near any company.

It's not a question of whether it's humorous - that is subjective and not something that anyone can determine on everyone else's behalf.

It's the intention that is relevant to my post. Were Fender's words intended to offend or amuse? With a modicum of resilience and humour, plus a willingness to even consider what was intended I believe it would be hard to be genuinely offended by those words. Sure, you might still find them unfunny, out dated, naive, childish, dumb, annoying, pathetic, or many other things... but offensive?

What I was referring to was the willingness, even desire to take offence that has become so prevalent today. Having a sense of humour could really be the antidote to that, or from a different perspective, it could really get in the way whilst running to the moral high ground.

I do think a sense of humour is important, but I also think a brand should be grown up enough to understand when they are pedaling an ad that is very old fashioned in its humour and is very likely to raise offence given the current social environment that it is being placed into.

Whether you or I find it offensive or funny is neither here nor there. Regardless of Fender's intent, the brand should know the risk of any add they place and this one is so obviously going to offend a good number of people.... Plus they just took the moral high ground side in the Dennis affair...


That was my point.

Bigsby

Teetonetal said:

Bigsby said:

Teetonetal said:

Bigsby said:

I reckon, if people continue to become increasingly thin skinned, humourless and desperate to be a victim of some one else's '-ism' at the current rate, we'll have to give up using words within the next 10 or 20 years. Things will quieten down then.

I'm not sure it's massively offensive, but it's certainly not humorous. It is just old fashioned and well past it's sell by date as a concept. The post is trying to be fun, cheeky and playful and just makes fender look like a tired out of touch company.

In today's environment a marketing professional shouldn't bring that concept anywhere near any company.

It's not a question of whether it's humorous - that is subjective and not something that anyone can determine on everyone else's behalf.

It's the intention that is relevant to my post. Were Fender's words intended to offend or amuse? With a modicum of resilience and humour, plus a willingness to even consider what was intended I believe it would be hard to be genuinely offended by those words. Sure, you might still find them unfunny, out dated, naive, childish, dumb, annoying, pathetic, or many other things... but offensive?

What I was referring to was the willingness, even desire to take offence that has become so prevalent today. Having a sense of humour could really be the antidote to that, or from a different perspective, it could really get in the way whilst running to the moral high ground.

I do think a sense of humour is important, but I also think a brand should be grown up enough to understand when they are pedaling an ad that is very old fashioned in its humour and is very likely to raise offence given the current social environment that it is being placed into.

Whether you or I find it offensive or funny is neither here nor there. Regardless of Fender's intent, the brand should know the risk of any add they place and this one is so obviously going to offend a good number of people.... Plus they just took the moral high ground side in the Dennis affair...


That was my point.

Sure, I don't think we're really disagreeing over anything - I just wanted to clarify that my reference to 'humourless' was not meant to imply that anyone should've found this funny - just that a sense of humour provides the ability to recognise the place it was coming from, the intention to be humorous rather than hurtful. 

bobbatone

westford said:

It’s just banter, right? 

In isolation, yeah. But when you are getting messages like that from all over, all the time, it builds and it builds and you end up with a bunch of men who think women only exist for their gratification and a bunch of women who think that’s all they’re worth.

It is tiresome.

Well said. This is the problem, and it’s not about one advert here or there. It’s a constant barrage of shit that comes from all angles everyday.

Also the idea that anyone is ‘desiring’ to take offence, ‘assert some control’ or jump on a PC bandwagon is completely off the mark - it’s just that more and more people can see it for what it is. 

usedtobe

prowla said:

There are people who just going around looking for things to get indignant about. 

I think the Carry On films are great. 

Last week at work at work a gay colleague said he really loves me in a meeting, to which I replied that I felt so gratified and all of us laughed. 

I’d hate to be in a world of grey where everybody is too scared to open their mouths in case they inadvertently say something which somebody might (deliberately) misconstrue. 

There are some things which are acknowledged to be offensive, but the PC thing can be taken too far. 

In my opinion, the Fender ad was pretty crap, but not worthy of a furore if affected indignation. 

This

digitalscream

bobbatone said:

westford said:

It’s just banter, right? 

In isolation, yeah. But when you are getting messages like that from all over, all the time, it builds and it builds and you end up with a bunch of men who think women only exist for their gratification and a bunch of women who think that’s all they’re worth.

It is tiresome.

Well said. This is the problem, and it’s not about one advert here or there. It’s a constant barrage of shit that comes from all angles everyday.

Also the idea that anyone is ‘desiring’ to take offence, ‘assert some control’ or jump on a PC bandwagon is completely off the mark - it’s just that more and more people can see it for what it is. 

Remind me - where were women mentioned in the original post?

bobbatone

Remind me - where were women mentioned in the original post?

The fact that it managed to objectify women without actually mentioning their gender shows you how engrained the issue is. We all know what the post implies. I’m sure you do too. But still, well done on making a balanced and valid point. 

AlexC

Innuendo?
In YOUR end-oh, I say!

digitalscream

bobbatone said:

Remind me - where were women mentioned in the original post?

The fact that it managed to objectify women without actually mentioning their gender shows you how engrained the issue is. We all know what the post implies. I’m sure you do too. But still, well done on making a balanced and valid point. 

No, that's my point.

In order to draw the conclusion that the author is being sexist, you actually have to assume that he's being sexist in the first place.

Why would you assume that? "Because".

And that's just plain ridiculous. It's the very definition of a circular argument.

soma1975

I can't believe people these days they will get offended at ANYTHING.

Even pointing out how archaic and off-putting to its new young customer base that sort of 'These guitars are sexy Brazilians sitting on your knee like a good girl or round your neck etc etc wink wink vaginas vaginas vaginas!' comments are. 

People really do get offended by other people calling out what they see as crass and naff talk which they are perfectly entitled to do. 'Oh but why can't it be like the good old days where you could say something ignorant and not get any kickback?'. Pathetic. 

As an aside, I personally find one of the best ways to not be accused of saying something sexist is to not say things that sound sexist. 

hollywoodrox

FFS , get a life , so pleased I grew up in the 70s and 80s , I see nothing remotely wrong with this
  

WiresDreamDisasters

Hope you got your clicks @stonevibe !!