JHS NOTAKLÖN

Bordonbert

"That’s ridiculous. I can get a guitar body sized box to the States for a few pounds more than this."

I'm absolutely with you on that.  I'm in the UK and, if you haven't yet, have a look at the prices for delivery to us!  This is going to be unpopular but what the Hell!  Apologies in advance if it causes a smut storm.

I like the idea of the project, the pedal is great as it should be, and just as he says there is no rocket science or elven magic involved.  I'm an ex-designer of electronics gear for the seismic industry so, believe me, I know what goes on inside our pedals much better than most.  It makes me howl with laughter at the way guitarists bend over and drop their pants to be shafted by the pedal makers peddling clones of old designs with a couple of dollars in the components and a few more in an enclosure with a pretty graphic on it.  Pedals are ALL basic technology and design, very basic.  They really are the most basic toys in electronics terms but guitarists have forced magical mystery spiritual status to them, mainly due to how little they understand about circuit action and production processes themselves.  I really think this comes down to having themselves be seen as having "guru status" for simply owning them.  This means prices have followed the line of the stupidity.  That sought after image in your involvement in guitar playing makes you a marketing man's dream and allows his hands directly into your wallet.

For $99 this is far far better value than most.  It's still a "Capitalist Company" product but there is a genuine attempt to keep it affordable.  At this price I was definitely going to buy one, but when I got to the payment page and saw the postage to the UK I was out immediately.  To only offer postage which is half the price of the pedal itself is plain STUPID!  It needs a cheaper option, (much cheaper), which won't be for those worrying about a number of days in transit.  I wouldn't mind waiting a couple of weeks for it to arrive if that meant I paid for a sensible delivery.  Without it the pedal is back in the realms of the "WELL overpriced at close to £120/$150+" nonsensical value range.

DuploLicks

My long time shipping complaint. JHS are just accepting what the delivery company API says. 

Same thing happens getting something sent from UK to NI. Delivery to Cairnryan - free. +10 miles of water? Oooh well let’s see now (spins multiplier wheel)

beed84

Musicman20 said:

Strat54 said:

Kind of ironic that JHS now find themselves in the same situation with these that Bill was in with the original Klon....massive demand, waitlists and resellers...

https://reverb.com/item/76115067-jhs-notaklon-2023-white?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=76115067

Can't believe they didn't see this coming.....or did they? 

The drama/internet coverage is perfect marketing for a modern online company. 

Whoever pays over the odds for a $99 pedal is just, to be polite, stupid. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126203997598

Believe it or not it has 11 watchers.

UnclePsychosis

beed84 said:

Musicman20 said:

Strat54 said:

Kind of ironic that JHS now find themselves in the same situation with these that Bill was in with the original Klon....massive demand, waitlists and resellers...

https://reverb.com/item/76115067-jhs-notaklon-2023-white?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=76115067

Can't believe they didn't see this coming.....or did they? 

The drama/internet coverage is perfect marketing for a modern online company. 

Whoever pays over the odds for a $99 pedal is just, to be polite, stupid. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126203997598

Believe it or not it has 11 watchers.

10 of those watchers are people who bought them to flip and the 11th is someone just there for the "drama". 

Musicman20

I took a look over on Gearpage and it seems there are delays (inevitable!) and someone saying it is quite noisy.

FOMO has passed and people aren't as excitied...perhaps. 

soma1975

Something about JHS really grinds my gears. Every he says and does seem so cynical and inauthentic that even if he finally released a great must-have original design pedal or gave away all his profits from his company to charity my subconscious would still find a way to turn it all into how that made him a terrible person. 

He's an expert marketeer tbf but he makes and sells (for the most part) mass-produced SMT clones of other pedals that tend to not sound as good as the originals. 

But the endless engineered scarcity and FOMO marketing represents everything that is wrong with the musical instruments industry in my opinion. That's not even touching the various controversies. 

No idea why I felt the ned to wade into a thread just to moan. Sorry. 

NOTAFÄN

impmann

soma1975 said:

He's an expert marketeer tbf but he makes and sells (for the most part) mass-produced SMT clones of other pedals that tend to not sound as good as the originals. 

Because SMT automatically is worse, isn't it? 

Mass produced... by the 35 employees that work at JHS pedals.

beed84

UnclePsychosis said:

beed84 said:

Musicman20 said:

Strat54 said:

Kind of ironic that JHS now find themselves in the same situation with these that Bill was in with the original Klon....massive demand, waitlists and resellers...

https://reverb.com/item/76115067-jhs-notaklon-2023-white?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=76115067

Can't believe they didn't see this coming.....or did they? 

The drama/internet coverage is perfect marketing for a modern online company. 

Whoever pays over the odds for a $99 pedal is just, to be polite, stupid. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126203997598

Believe it or not it has 11 watchers.

10 of those watchers are people who bought them to flip and the 11th is someone just there for the "drama". 

[EDIT: Jackie Chan meme image got deleted. It wasn't that funny anyway.]

Musicman20

impmann said:

soma1975 said:

He's an expert marketeer tbf but he makes and sells (for the most part) mass-produced SMT clones of other pedals that tend to not sound as good as the originals. 

Because SMT automatically is worse, isn't it? 

Mass produced... by the 35 employees that work at JHS pedals.

I don't think that's the emphasis, it's more of a subjective view that they don't tend to sound outstanding or as good. 

If they are churning out 20,000 Notaklons in 2-3 months, I'd be very surprised if the majority of the kit isn't make overseas and just put into a box and the packaging/manual etc all checked over.  They don't have to assemble it.

Same with the 3 series - be interested to know where the shells and circuit boards are actually manufactured. Might just be by chance, but all the vids I see on their marketing is mostly just basic assembly.

I think a lot of their digital algorithms are created outside of JHS by those who work in the digital pedal industry.

I could be wrong about some/all of the above!

I noticed Josh was 'presenting' the history of pedals on Sweetwater's Youtube channel. I don't understand why people are hailing him as some kind of expert in pedal history. Most of what he seems to say is basic knowledge from wikipedia. 

impmann

Musicman20 said:

impmann said:

soma1975 said:

He's an expert marketeer tbf but he makes and sells (for the most part) mass-produced SMT clones of other pedals that tend to not sound as good as the originals. 

Because SMT automatically is worse, isn't it? 

Mass produced... by the 35 employees that work at JHS pedals.

I don't think that's the emphasis, it's more of a subjective view that they don't tend to sound outstanding or as good. 

If they are churning out 20,000 Notaklons in 2-3 months, I'd be very surprised if the majority of the kit isn't make overseas and just put into a box and the packaging/manual etc all checked over.  They don't have to assemble it.

Same with the 3 series - be interested to know where the shells and circuit boards are actually manufactured. Might just be by chance, but all the vids I see on their marketing is mostly just basic assembly.

I think a lot of their digital algorithms are created outside of JHS by those who work in the digital pedal industry.

I could be wrong about some/all of the above!

I noticed Josh was 'presenting' the history of pedals on Sweetwater's Youtube channel. I don't understand why people are hailing him as some kind of expert in pedal history. Most of what he seems to say is basic knowledge from wikipedia. 

Actually - using wave soldering, SMT and PCBs that nobody has to assemble and test, means that a small number of folks can churn out a kit in very short time. I also wouldn't be surprised if they've outsourced the PCBA build but you'd be surprised by where that could be possible.

There are plenty of OE manufacturers in the US perfectly capable of very simple circuit board manufacture in this way - I doubt greatly they are overseas made and especially not in China (which is always the inference)... and I justify this by having inside knowledge of Chinese lead times. Y'see, this is the run down to Chinese New Year, which means that manufacturing slots were booked six months ago, so ramping up production to make 20k PCBAs based on sales that happened three weeks ago isn't going to happen over there and ship within the timeframes quoted. FACT. 

Subjective views about things sounding this way and that - everyone is entitled to an opinion. But if something is a clone, it would sound identical (there is no 'magic' in electronics, no matter what BS bollocks you watch or read on line) - therefore if they don't sound 'as good' they aren't clones. Are they?  

I've owned a few JHS pedals (and I'm excited to receive news that my Notaklon is on its way), and I like their stuff - each to their own, but in the video I couldn't really hear a difference between the JHS and the Klon... 

This forum is a becoming a very negative environment right now where the same faces seem to want to piss on the chips of others... I don't really understand why. If you aren't interested, fine - if you aren't buying one, equally fine - if you don't like JHS products, totally fine... but why do folks seem to think its not being a dick to keep being negative about others' enthusiasm about them?

Just saying, like...

Musicman20

impmann said:

Musicman20 said:

impmann said:

soma1975 said:

He's an expert marketeer tbf but he makes and sells (for the most part) mass-produced SMT clones of other pedals that tend to not sound as good as the originals. 

Because SMT automatically is worse, isn't it? 

Mass produced... by the 35 employees that work at JHS pedals.

I don't think that's the emphasis, it's more of a subjective view that they don't tend to sound outstanding or as good. 

If they are churning out 20,000 Notaklons in 2-3 months, I'd be very surprised if the majority of the kit isn't make overseas and just put into a box and the packaging/manual etc all checked over.  They don't have to assemble it.

Same with the 3 series - be interested to know where the shells and circuit boards are actually manufactured. Might just be by chance, but all the vids I see on their marketing is mostly just basic assembly.

I think a lot of their digital algorithms are created outside of JHS by those who work in the digital pedal industry.

I could be wrong about some/all of the above!

I noticed Josh was 'presenting' the history of pedals on Sweetwater's Youtube channel. I don't understand why people are hailing him as some kind of expert in pedal history. Most of what he seems to say is basic knowledge from wikipedia. 

Actually - using wave soldering, SMT and PCBs that nobody has to assemble and test, means that a small number of folks can churn out a kit in very short time. I also wouldn't be surprised if they've outsourced the PCBA build but you'd be surprised by where that could be possible.

There are plenty of OE manufacturers in the US perfectly capable of very simple circuit board manufacture in this way - I doubt greatly they are overseas made and especially not in China (which is always the inference)... and I justify this by having inside knowledge of Chinese lead times. Y'see, this is the run down to Chinese New Year, which means that manufacturing slots were booked six months ago, so ramping up production to make 20k PCBAs based on sales that happened three weeks ago isn't going to happen over there and ship within the timeframes quoted. FACT. 

Subjective views about things sounding this way and that - everyone is entitled to an opinion. But if something is a clone, it would sound identical (there is no 'magic' in electronics, no matter what BS bollocks you watch or read on line) - therefore if they don't sound 'as good' they aren't clones. Are they?  

I've owned a few JHS pedals (and I'm excited to receive news that my Notaklon is on its way), and I like their stuff - each to their own, but in the video I couldn't really hear a difference between the JHS and the Klon... 

This forum is a becoming a very negative environment right now where the same faces seem to want to piss on the chips of others... I don't really understand why. If you aren't interested, fine - if you aren't buying one, equally fine - if you don't like JHS products, totally fine... but why do folks seem to think its not being a dick to keep being negative about others' enthusiasm about them?

Just saying, like...

I think you are taking this a bit too personally. There have been opposing views against JHS for years. People can draw their own conclusions.

It’s a 99 dollar clone kit, it’s not a £4k custom shop. Not everything is as it seems, and sometimes you need balance to make a decision.

All forums are like this. I buy stupid stuff all the time and I couldn’t care less what anyone thinks. 

A lot of what I’ve said is reiterating other comments from Gear Page etc. 

Unless you use the EXACT same parts as the original there will be a difference and then there are parts tolerances. I don’t buy into crazy expensive overdrive pedals either. 

The problem is there is a cult like mentality with JHS (and this happens with other companies) with people getting offended if you don’t follow the norm. 

At 99 dollars it’ll be fun, but people paying silly money for an in production pedal need to just walk away from the FOMO.  

soma1975

impmann said:

soma1975 said:

He's an expert marketeer tbf but he makes and sells (for the most part) mass-produced SMT clones of other pedals that tend to not sound as good as the originals. 

Because SMT automatically is worse, isn't it? 

Mass produced... by the 35 employees that work at JHS pedals.

Never said they were worse for being SMT. I was saying they were absolutely run of the mill clones. 

And yes mass produced as opposed to hand-wired/hand-soldered. 

EDIT: Just to clarify - there is nothing wrong with a run of the mill clone. 

soma1975

impmann said:

This forum is a becoming a very negative environment right now where the same faces seem to want to piss on the chips of others... I don't really understand why. If you aren't interested, fine - if you aren't buying one, equally fine - if you don't like JHS products, totally fine... but why do folks seem to think its not being a dick to keep being negative about others' enthusiasm about them?

Just saying, like...

Well, I was joining in the conversation that had moved onto the post-hype phase and into some people having issues or not massively enjoying them. 

The idea that if you don't want praise something you should not discuss it is utterly absurd. There's nothing wrong with saying you do not like the way someone does business or marketing in a thread about said person and his marketed product. 

I'm happy if someone else is happy with a new thing they have. Great. Not really sure anything I have said constitutes me being a dick tbf. 

 

matt_sefton

Voxsupertwin said:

The clones from China, ready built and even cheaper, are as good as all the ‘replicas’’ and even the real thing….
There’s no ‘snake oil’ magic in this pedal, just ridiculous hype and stupid prices ……
So come back down to Earth, and you’ll get the sound you desire !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115693538753?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=o9I6saMNQrq&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Djz9JxtySlO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

So, just to revisit this comment - I did exactly that! I've been fascinated by the whole Klon debate for ages but had never had one or any of the more "official" clones from J Rockett, Wampler, etc so as a bit of an experiment I used the link provided by @Voxsupertwin and ordered one from Ebay on 23rd November. More to confirm to myself that paying over the odds for something like a pedal is a bit daft!
It arrived today from China in a nice neat little box with foam inserts cut to the shape of the pedal. First impressions weren't great as one of the knobs was rattling around inside the box and one of the pot shafts was bent but nothing a screwdriver and pliers couldn't sort. The metal case is decent and the printing is good. Only loses points for the ridiculously cheap and nasty knobs!
Once plugged in, everything worked fine and, to my ears at least, sounds exactly like a Klon. Obviously I don't have an original to compare it to but it has that overdrive transparency and clarity of each note that I associate (rightly or wrongly) with a Klon. The Treble knob is incredibly sensitive and it seems like there's a "sweet spot" before it either turns really brittle treble or slightly muffled bass.
Overall I'm more than happy with it for the £45.49 it cost me but I have to be honest and say that it feels slightly "wrong" to be buying copies of things from China. Here's a couple of pictures including a gut shot for those who know what they're looking at (I don't!). Sadly, no goop! 

impmann

Never mind the bollocks, it’s here.

Couple of points from earlier on in the thread to address:

No I didn’t need to pay anything extra on delivery. As it’s below the threshold.

It’s not a toy, it’s really nicely made, finished and presented.

I will report back on how it sounds later this weekend once I’ve built it… with my 10yr old son, as that will be *fun* - which after all is what this whole product is about.

guitargeek62

impmann said:

Couple of points from earlier on in the thread to address:

No I didn’t need to pay anything extra on delivery. As it’s below the threshold.

It’s not a toy, it’s really nicely made, finished and presented.

I will report back on how it sounds later this weekend once I’ve built it… with my 10yr old son, as that will be *fun* - which after all is what this whole product is about.

Oooh, that might clinch it then

GavRichList

Id echo what @impmann said about the sound of it vs the Klon in the videos. Anyone who claims the original sounded better is kidding themselves. I’ve not ordered one yet, but absolutely couldn’t rule one out - have always wanted to try a Klon, and it sounded spot on. 

tone1

I must have cloth ears….I just don’t like the Klon sound…..

GavRichList

tone1 said:

I must have cloth ears….I just don’t like the Klon sound…..

See that’s fine as an opinion. It’s just the suggestion that the jhs sounds inferior which seems like madness to me - it was identical. 

tone1

Yep, eyes closed you’d be hard pressed to tell that they’ve been switched.