Slightly Poor Experience with a Retailer

Dan

Hi,

First off dont really want to mention the retailer if I can help it, as some of these posts have gone abit south in the past and dont really want this to happen. Main reason for this post is to gauge opinions really.

Timeline goes something like this...

Emailed a retailer asking for neck measurements of a particular guitar (yes im picky!)

Retailer provided dimensions and I purchased the guitar based mainly on this.

Got the guitar and checked the dimensions which didnt seem to be that close to what they provided - 0.878" at the 1st. I measured 0.845". Could tell straight away when holding the neck.

Emailed asking if I can return and they collect as its not "as described". Provided picture of what im measuring the neck at.

Response was...

"Thanks for sending this over and apologies it's not what you exactly expected or wanted. But with our gauge it measured something very close indeed, equivalent to 1mm. This is close enough to allow for the gauges being calibrated slightly differently or being placed or positioned differently on the neck.

This would not be considered a manufacturing fault with the guitar, rather a personal preference and therefore we would accept it for a full refund as a standard return.​"

Granted my digital calipers could be quite a way out but ive measured various things (sounds wrong) and seems to be pretty much spot on with what you would expect.

Yes part of me is thinking just pay the £30 odd quid to get it send back but its just a bit disappointing. Part of me is thinking to contact my CC company and see what they say.

If I got it and didnt like but it was close to that measurement then I would expect to pay to send it back. For context the guitar is around £600 if that makes any different what so ever.

What do you guys think? Am I being unreasonable? What the point of measuring the neck if its not really that close? Whats the point of this post or anything in life?

 
Sorry for the ramblings.

**EDIT** Sorry quite a big point to miss. They have provided a returns number with no issues but the sticking point is who covers the return. 

RaymondLin

It doesn't matter what reason, if it's within 14 days, send it back.  You don't need a reason.

MrTee

Is the sticking point 'who covers the return'?

Dan

Sorry yes quite a big point to miss out, sorry should have mentioned this, they have provided a returns number but the sticking point is who covers the return.

Fingers657

Price doesn’t come into it.
The guitar was sold  quoting wrong measurements so it’s the retailers fault.
Buying on line these days is made easy by most decent quality retailers with a 30 day not happy send it back.

UnclePsychosis

Maybe I'm a bit old school but if you're going to reject a guitar over 0.033" then i don't think you should be buying instruments online.

By all means return it if you're not happy but I personally wouldn't be pointing too many fingers at the shop. 

duotone

I know it’s not your situation, but I just read this on: https://www.peachguitars.com/customer-service/returns-info.htm

Goods Purchased in Store: Our in store policy is that “all sales are final", if you’ve visited, tried something in person while using our service, expertise etc, then there is no legal or moral responsibility for refunds. We will allow for an exchange in certain circumstances, get in touch to discuss your situation further.

Interesting!

sev112

UnclePsychosis said:

Maybe I'm a bit old school but if you're going to reject a guitar over 0.033" then i don't think you should be buying instruments online.

By all means return it if you're not happy but I personally wouldn't be pointing too many fingers at the shop. 

I get 0.7mm ?!  That’s a reasonable amount?

TTony

There are many factors that could result in a measuring error that small.

And if you measured the thing 5 times, you'll likely get slightly different measurements.

So I'm with UncleP on this. 

SlopeSoarer

In a previous life I was an engineer and have no difficulty (in general) at measuring things with venier gauges, micrometers, etc but guitar necks being what they are I find difficult to get the same measurement twice at times. They may well have measured on the same fret but at a different position. For example near the headstock there are multiple shapes going on.

I'm sure they won't have deliberately tried to mislead you.

Just a view from a distance without bias.

UnclePsychosis

sev112 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Maybe I'm a bit old school but if you're going to reject a guitar over 0.033" then i don't think you should be buying instruments online.

By all means return it if you're not happy but I personally wouldn't be pointing too many fingers at the shop. 

I get 0.7mm ?!  That’s a reasonable amount?

An error of 0.7mm with respect to, for example, a strat neck width of 43mm is a tolerance of about 1.5%. Which doesn't seem like an egregious error to make.

OP can feel fully justified in returning the guitar. Its within his rights and we all like what we like.

I'm just saying that the shop isn't at fault IMO. 

Whitecat

duotone said:

I know it’s not your situation, but I just read this on: https://www.peachguitars.com/customer-service/returns-info.htm

Goods Purchased in Store: Our in store policy is that “all sales are final", if you’ve visited, tried something in person while using our service, expertise etc, then there is no legal or moral responsibility for refunds. We will allow for an exchange in certain circumstances, get in touch to discuss your situation further.

Interesting!

“Your statutory rights are not affected” is implied there I guess. If you got it home and found something wrong with it you didn’t detect in store then there would both a legal and a moral responsibility for a refund if you wanted one. 

goldtop

SlopeSoarer said:

In a previous life I was an engineer and have no difficulty (in general) at measuring things with venier gauges, micrometers, etc but guitar necks being what they are I find difficult to get the same measurement twice at times. They may well have measured on the same fret but at a different position. For example near the headstock there are multiple shapes going on.

I'm sure they won't have deliberately tried to mislead you.

Just a view from a distance without bias.

Yup - so many times I've been asked, and I can't get the same figure twice (digital and old-school calipers). One of the reasons I prefer to sell in person.

TBH, if I knew I was so picky over a guitar neck's feel, I'd only buy in person. 

Pay up, write it off to experience.

Nerine

That seems like a very small amount to really make any noticeable difference to anything. How do you go from guitar to guitar? 

I'd say this is more pedantic than picky, so I can kind of understand the shop's stance on this one. 0.8mm is verging on being tolerance.

Like, such a small difference in neck size really shouldn't affect your playing unless there are mitigating circumstances we're unaware of?

Lastly, how do you know what the "correct" measurement feels like? Do you have another guitar that has your desired width neck?

If you like the guitar, and it plays well and sounds good, I'd suck it up and learn to get on with it. 

digitalkettle

Is this the difference between measuring on the fret surface versus measuring from the fingerboard?

(0.033" seems a bit low for a fret)

WeZ84

I'm not sure I could detect a difference of less than 1mm with the guitar in my hand. The sellers probably charge the restocking fee to put off people "borrowing" new guitars then sending them back after a gig or something.

Is is possible to visit the seller in person and take the guitar back? - they might have something else in stock that is more suitable that you can try in person - take your calipers with you!

CaseOfAce

I understand a player's preference for neck profiles and radii - but getting calipers out and precise neck measurements?  

JonJ1974

Seems like a straightforward 'no-defect' return and the retailer is honouring it with no fuss - it'd be a shame to think that was a slightly poor experience IMO. 

BillDL

My personal opinion is that the retailer's response to you was reasonable.  They explained the potential discrepancies that can arise when two different people are using two different gauges to measure two different items.  If you really wanted to pursue the "not as described" angle it would be crucial to know the exact wording of their response to your request for neck depth measurements.  If they responded in writing:

"The neck is exactly 0.878" in depth directly under the 1st fret"

you may have a justifiable reason to say that the retailer wrongly described the item they sold to you.  If, however, they responded with something like:

"We have measured the neck using a vernier caliper and it shows as 0.878" in depth at the 1st fret"

then that leaves three aspects with ambiguity and open to interpretation, and is exactly what they said in their response:

1. Accuracy of THEIR calipers vs YOUR calipers.

2. Was the measurement taken right under the fret or in the area between the nut and the fret.

3. Potential variance depending how accurately the jaws of the caliper were positioned.

I think that from a legal standpoint they are within their rights not to offer you a return for full refund but based on the 14 day "change of mind" clause of the relevant legislation where the buyer pays return postage.  When you consider that the retailer is obliged by law to advertise the guitar as a customer return at a lower price (some do, some don't) I would say that they are not being unreasonable.  A "goodwill gesture" would cost them the price of carriage plus that of reducing the price to resell the guitar.

duotone said:

I know it’s not your situation, but I just read this on: https://www.peachguitars.com/customer-service/returns-info.htm

Goods Purchased in Store: Our in store policy is that “all sales are final", if you’ve visited, tried something in person while using our service, expertise etc, then there is no legal or moral responsibility for refunds. We will allow for an exchange in certain circumstances, get in touch to discuss your situation further.

Interesting!

That's pretty much standard to most retailers where you can visit a physical outlet and inspect an item before buying it, and is well within the consumer rights legislation.

Fingers657

I’ve had a lovely Gibson SG sitting in its original case in my hall for a couple of years because I absolutely hate the flat neck on it.
I knew within seconds of running my hand up and down it when it arrived I didn't like it.
It sounds brilliant.
It was bought pre loved from a good retailer who would of given me a refund but I couldn’t be bovered to send it back.

steer

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