Line 6 Helix

Heartfeltdawn

hugbot said:

I feel like its missing some obvious ones. A POG for one thing, reverse reverb, two filters seems a bit tragic unless they're both insanely cusomisable, frequency shifter - one of my faves from the M series. ect

Its not shabby, its just not as well stocked as the M series to be a good enough successor I think.

I don't think it needs to be as well stocked as the M series. If the choice is 'more models, average quality' or 'fewer models, much higher quality' then give me the latter. When you look at the competition, then people are happy to pay for fewer models but higher quality. A Timefactor has 9 different delay types and the looper for £350. The Space is £400 with 12 reverb types. Now there is the H9 Max with all the algos but you're still restricted to one sound at a time. 

A £500 to £600 Helix FX with all the effects as listed, something that was touching on the quality of Eventide or Strymon but with the flexibility that made the M series so good would really give the competition something to think about. 

hugbot

digitalscream;717057" said:

I suspect it's going to be released as a work-in-progress, with a few modules held back for a later update or two. Regular updates (but not with breaking changes, like Fractal) are a popular request, so it's likely to actually help sales if they put out extra content periodically.

This is what im hoping so I want to get in all my angry noises about desired features early.

DesVegas

these kinds of demos need to be heard through your amp really

wibble

digitalscream said:

I suspect it's going to be released as a work-in-progress, with a few modules held back for a later update or two. Regular updates (but not with breaking changes, like Fractal) are a popular request, so it's likely to actually help sales if they put out extra content periodically.

I suspect they'll go down their previous POD XT route and offer 'model packs' as paid for DLC rather than as free updates.

Digital_Igloo

ToneControl said:

who can tell me whether or not it completely destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp and good single coil guitar?

I certainly hope not. If Helix destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp, it's inaccurate!

If anything, our modeling goal was accuracy to a fault. That is, if one feels our 5150 sounds like bees in a can, it's because the real 5150 sounds like bees in a can.

RMJ

Digital_Igloo said:

ToneControl said:

who can tell me whether or not it completely destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp and good single coil guitar?

I certainly hope not. If Helix destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp, it's inaccurate!

If anything, our modeling goal was accuracy to a fault. That is, if one feels our 5150 sounds like bees in a can, it's because the real 5150 sounds like bees in a can.

Out of interest, how much better can modelling get? Is Helix (AFX, Kemper) as good as it gets? Will more DSP in the future mean more accuracy? Is more DSP even feasible?
I spent some time with my eleven rack today with the editor on my laptop. After doing so I am not sure I can justify the additional cost unless I am literally bowled over by the sounds of Helix

digitalscream

RMJ said:

Digital_Igloo said:

ToneControl said:

who can tell me whether or not it completely destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp and good single coil guitar?

I certainly hope not. If Helix destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp, it's inaccurate!

If anything, our modeling goal was accuracy to a fault. That is, if one feels our 5150 sounds like bees in a can, it's because the real 5150 sounds like bees in a can.

Out of interest, how much better can modelling get? Is Helix (AFX, Kemper) as good as it gets? Will more DSP in the future mean more accuracy? Is more DSP even feasible?
I spent some time with my eleven rack today with the editor on my laptop. After doing so I am not sure I can justi

I'd venture to suggest that once you've got it down to the component level (accurately), that's pretty much as good as it's going to get.

The Kemper isn't going to be measurable against that, because it completely ignores the circuit itself and models the signal chain in its entirety; I believe the Fractal approach is somewhere between the two.

Drew_TNBD

There are a couple of ways of modelling circuits - one is input/output analysis, where you put something in... get something out... and compare against the real thing. Sorta like the Kemper. With this method you tend to see basic DSP waveshaping like what all of the 1st gen amp modellers used.

Then you've got things like SPICE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPICE

Which is a method of modelling circuitry down to the component level. We did this method for our DCAM synths and effects.

There are other methods, but I'm by no means an expert.

PolarityMan

digitalscream said:

RMJ said:

Digital_Igloo said:

ToneControl said:

who can tell me whether or not it completely destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp and good single coil guitar?

I certainly hope not. If Helix destroys the tone of a top notch clean amp, it's inaccurate!

If anything, our modeling goal was accuracy to a fault. That is, if one feels our 5150 sounds like bees in a can, it's because the real 5150 sounds like bees in a can.

Out of interest, how much better can modelling get? Is Helix (AFX, Kemper) as good as it gets? Will more DSP in the future mean more accuracy? Is more DSP even feasible?
I spent some time with my eleven rack today with the editor on my laptop. After doing so I am not sure I can justi

I'd venture to suggest that once you've got it down to the component level (accurately), that's pretty much as good as it's going to get.

The Kemper isn't going to be measurable against that, because it completely ignores the circuit itself and models the signal chain in its entirety; I believe the Fractal approach is somewhere between the two.

What about player modelling, like if it can model what it would sound like played by a particular player and correct timing discrepencies, poor note articulation etc?

Si_

Any sign of a release date yet?

Drew_TNBD

Si_ said:

Any sign of a release date yet?

It's gotta be a month away at least I would've thought.

digitalscream

Si_ said:

Any sign of a release date yet?

Thomann reckons it's 18th September.

UnclePsychosis

I'd love to know what the sales targets / success indicators are for something like this.

There's a lot of engineering in it. Is the market for this kind of device big enough?

I think it looks great so not here to bash it. Just genuinely interested in how this works financially/otherwise for line6.

dindude

UnclePsychosis said:

I'd love to know what the sales targets / success indicators are for something like this.

There's a lot of engineering in it. Is the market for this kind of device big enough?

I think it looks great so not here to bash it. Just genuinely interested in how this works financially/otherwise for line6. Intre

Interesting question - I think the big boys probably underestimated the high end market a little.

This is a quote from Cliff at Fractal from back in 2011:

I figured ‘yeah, you know, if I could sell a hundred a year I’ll probably be doing pretty well.’ I sold about that many yesterday, so….[laughs…]

 

monquixote

UnclePsychosis said:

I'd love to know what the sales targets / success indicators are for something like this.

There's a lot of engineering in it. Is the market for this kind of device big enough?

I think it looks great so not here to bash it. Just genuinely interested in how this works financially/otherwise for line6.

The wonder of Moore's law means that doesn't matter.

For the next two years this will be a super high end flagship.

In two years time there will probably be a cutdown version which is a bit more affordable to the average gigging musician.

In five years they will probably release a new series of Spiders (or indeed THR10) using Helix tech. 

By that time the R&D will have paid for itself many times over.

MattFGBI

I want one.  Still.  

The only question is what power amp to use..... 

ElectroDan

I suppose if you're going down the Helix route, you might as well use it for everything (amp, and cab sims too) and go into a stereo FRFR amp and speakers.

Because you're worth it.

guitarfishbay

MattFGBI said:

I want one.  Still.  

The only question is what power amp to use..... 

I asked earlier but I don't think it was answered.

As an Axe FX 2/Matrix GT1000fx/Recto 2x12 user dailing in the power amp sim to match the resonant frequency of a cab has been absolutely critical to getting punch and thickness in any kind of realistic way. Yes you can do lots of advanced EQ and settings tweaking but I've found matching the modelled power amp settings to the cab means I only use regular amp controls to get my tones (BMT, pres, res, gain, mv). With the exception of sometimes using dynamic depth to loosen up and add more low end to the really tight amps a little (it is equivalent to a stronger pick attack increasing resonance parameter dynamically).

If the Helix doesn't have a similar parameter for PA impedance/resonance matching I'd be cautious about using an SS power amp for a real cab for higher volume playing unless other people find it usable. A valve power amp would solve this. I had an HD500 and directly A/B'd to the Axe FX through the Matrix/Mesa rig - through a cab there was a really big difference at high volume. While you could get usable tones with either the way the Axe responded was way closer to an amp than the Pod. Getting a big but tight low end out of the pod was difficult, it flabbed out quicker than the Axe FX at similar levels, like the punch was at the wrong frequency. Pod still sounded decent with IRs etc IMO - and plenty of good recordings back that up.

I know some guys never get the amplification side working for them with a digital unit and traditional cab. I think this might be part of the reason @Octatonic went to using a valve amp and now FX8.

rossyamaha

Heads up folks. More of tha toanz!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xopwio5IJtc&feature=youtu.be

 

digitalscream

rossyamaha said:

Heads up folks. More of tha toanz!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xopwio5IJtc&feature=youtu.be

 

Sounds pretty awesome to me - not a bad one in there.

...although I can't help feeling that these videos are as much to show off Sean Halley's guitar collection as they are to demonstrate the Helix