Class war

marantz1300

But very dapper.

stickyfiddle

THe brown leather / blue suit thing is BIG outside banking at the moment, but investment banking is a very specific culture and you have to fit that profile to succeed. Following trends for bright ties or brown shoes is the opposite of that. But moreso, it's likely that any candidate who already doesn't understand the City investment bank thing also interviewed quite badly without even realising. If they're only hiring 20% of people they interview they can afford to be very picky about who they take.

It's nothing to do with class. Like any high-pressure job it's about fitting the existing culture so that you can join the team and not cause any friction - it goes far deeper than clothing. 

Anyway, my (corporate, non-bank) office has just announced we're moving to "business casual" from Sunday so I'm off to find some new chinos and a pair of brown shoes...

marantz1300

The SS had nice uniforms

stickyfiddle

marantz1300 said:

The SS had nice uniforms

Hugo Boss, iirc. Very well designed. Also a complete straw man argument...

What's your point? I don't understand why people still have a chip on their shoulders about bankers 8 years later. If laws weren't broken you can't prosecute people. Blame Brown...

Teetonetal

So happy I have a job where I don't need to wear a suit. I look ridiculous in a suit. 

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

Failed I'm afraid. No investment banker I know would buy anything in M&S

We were talking about interviews.

£3k on a suit is grand if you've got £3k to splooge on a suit.

I just depends on the company and job role you are after. We would expect our sales team to be well turned out. Our finance team get suited and booted when the auditors come to call, Our tech support staff get away with smart casual. I often turn up in swimming shorts and flip flops as nobody ever sees me and I like going swimming in the river at lunch time. On days when it matters I can do super smart though.

As an interviewer the appearance of a job candidate makes a huge impression but is also a basic requirement, along with a spell checked CV. If you can't be arsed to look half decent for a job interview, then chances are you can't be arsed doing your work. That doesn't mean to say you need to wear a 3k suit, but it does mean that we expect a little effort. Ironed clothes for example... However, as an interviewer my criteria for candidate's dress sense stops at are they acceptable, far more important are the questions of competence and mentality. If I got sucked into employing someone based on the cut of their suit, I'm not a very good interviewer.

Panama_Jack666

I struggle buying shoes as I'm size 14 (some shoes I've needed in 15). Most smart shoes I've ever bought are brown. Am I unemployable?

CHRISB50

No brown in town.

If the guy is so sharp of mind, he should have researched the company he wanted to work for a bit better.

I am not sure how you can consider it a 'class war'. I think you're overstating it.

I'm a normal bloke, I don't earn silly money, but I like nice clothes.

I have a couple of Savile Row suits (cut by John Kent), they are beautiful hand made items that actually represent good value. Once you take into account the amount of work that goes into making one, and the time it takes to make vs the price.  

CabbageCat

Panama_Jack666 said:

I struggle buying shoes as I'm size 14 (some shoes I've needed in 15). Most smart shoes I've ever bought are brown. Am I unemployable?

No, but you might want to go through life blaming your lack of success on your shoe size.

Iamnobody

Panama_Jack666 said:

I struggle buying shoes as I'm size 14 (some shoes I've needed in 15). Most smart shoes I've ever bought are brown. Am I unemployable?

Shit!

Are you really tall - or basically an L shape!

Ive got brown shoes - for no other reason than that's what was in the Clarkes sale at the time of purchase.

fields5069

Brize said:

Evilmags said:

To be fair anyone cuntish enough to turn up at a City office in brown shoes should be ejected from the office as a matter of urgency. Likewise slipons, Just so wrong on so many levels. 

Wis'd. Brown shoes with a business suit is the sartorial equivalent of using reflexive pronouns inappropriately - it marks you out as low rent.

Pshaw! So says yourself.

fretmeister

Even if the dress code for an establishment was casual, I wouldn't dream of turning up to the interview in anything other than a dark suit with black shoes.

Complying with a casual dress code is fine when you get the job, but every interviewer wants to see an effort being made.

If I wouldn't wear it in front of a judge, then I wouldn't wear it to an interview.

Panama_Jack666

Iamnobody said:

Panama_Jack666 said:

I struggle buying shoes as I'm size 14 (some shoes I've needed in 15). Most smart shoes I've ever bought are brown. Am I unemployable?

Shit!

Are you really tall - or basically an L shape!

Ive got brown shoes - for no other reason than that's what was in the Clarkes sale at the time of purchase.

Pretty tall, yeah! Not freakishly tall though. 6 foot 2ish.

It's complete nightmare getting shoes unless I order them online (and there is no gurantee they'll fit) or going to a shop like high and mighty and paying over the odds!

I'll make sure to blame all future unsuccess on my freakishly large feet @cabbagecat! Good call!

Snap

That BBC article is poor, and has been pointed out very Daily Mail.

Its not about class at all, its about interview technique really. Whatever anyone says, you make an impression of someone in the first few moments, and that then becomes hard to shift.

I interview, I employ, and I expect candidates to put some thought into how they come across, and that includes appearance.
If a role is client facing, then that is all the more important. You need to put the people you are dealing with at ease, and part of that is fitting with their culture. Appearance is a big part of it.

Part of what I do is client facing, and a lot of it involves working with different countries and cultures. One thing I am always aware of is not clashing with their dress. It might seem poncish, but its just basic nous really. For example I usually wear suit and tie, but in the middle east, they (mostly) look at you like you are some sort of arcane museum piece if you pitch up in jacket and tie.

Whereas in Russia they quite like it.

One thing that grinds with me is when people go client facing without shaving. It might be OK outside of work, but IMO you need to smarten up when around clients.

suits though, in work must always have a pair of black shoes under them, no exceptions for me.

Its easy enough to look crisp on a budget - M&S suits are fine, but you need to get any off the peg suit altered. A few quid spent on alterations can make a cheap suit look bespoke. Get the jacket waist nipped in, the sleeves the right length, and the hems of your kecks just kissing the tops of your shoes. Sorted, bespoke fit on a budget.

Shirt in the sale from TM Lewin/Tyrwhitt, and get the right collar size. Always white, always. Subtle tie, black socks, black (polished) shoes. Dirty shoes, that gets me every time - shows a complete lack of pride. Your shoes can be crap, but if they are clean, shows you are bothered. and vice versa.

Mags - wanna go halves on a Savile Row lease??? lmao

digitalscream

All this bitching about suits...it amuses me that there's so much discussion over it.

People will be employed partly because of their skills and knowledge, and partly because of the image they project to the client. If you don't have forms of both sides appropriate to the job you're interviewing for, you don't get the job...it's not really that confusing, or anything to be angry about.

As a side note...the whole "people in suits fucked the economy" - yep, it was all down to what people are wearing, and equally everybody wearing a suit deserves the blame. Good deduction work there, Sherlock...

monquixote

Turning up dressed wrongly for an interview just shows that you aren't someone who does your homework and considers all the angles. 

I work in an office where everyone wears casual dress, but when we had a bloke turn up in shorts, t-shirt and flip flops for an interview I was deeply unimpressed.
Similarly I know if I'm going to be interviewing someone I will always make sure I'm wearing a smart shirt to the office. Interviewing someone in a t-shirt similarly makes me feel like I'm not showing them respect. 

Dopesick

So fucking glad I don't have to wear a suit in my job. In fact I absolutely detest wearing a suit altogether. I even hate turning up every day for work in normal office attire, it's like I'm operating inside the body of a bloody alien (thank fuck for casual Friday). I understand the value of appropriate attire because it makes things more 'neutral; but every job interview I've had has me cautious about how much of a complete knob I look with my tie done up to eleven and my fancy shiny shoes and my lovely smooth shirt and jacket overflowing of swag and oh lah-di-fucking-dah...

Wait..do people really turn up to job interviews in t-shirts?

dchwhite

Brize said:

Evilmags said:

To be fair anyone cuntish enough to turn up at a City office in brown shoes should be ejected from the office as a matter of urgency. Likewise slipons, Just so wrong on so many levels. 

Wis'd. Brown shoes with a business suit is the sartorial equivalent of using reflexive pronouns inappropriately - it marks you out as low rent.

Silly question no doubt, but how do you use reflexive pronouns inappropriately? (I am low rent, but try to cover it up )

edbolivar

I agree that prejudice can enter my mind when interviewing candidates, especially as I don't do early round interviews, so by the time I see someone they would have been to our office a few times and have met a lot of people, and therefore they should have picked up on the dress code and culture if not obvious before. It also makes me wonder about the current member of staff who has recommended that I see them as well.

That said, talent is talent, and I will make exceptions (and have done) dependent on their backround.

For example an ex-public school boy from a good university is expected (in my eyes) to know how to navigate this dress code issue and should look the part, and if they don't it makes me wonder why not..

However, someone, with a different backround or from a different culture may not appreciate this nuances, so I will cut them some slack, as long as they shine in more important areas, and have the right drive.

Over the years I have bought shirts, shoes and suits for staff to help them. As theses things can be expensive and younger members of my team don't all have parents to help them out at the very beginning.

We all start somewhere...

Jalapeno

Brown shoes with a brown suit are ok, greeen suit at a pinch, but just wrong with blue/grey/black - whatever the current hipster trend.

Brogues are questionable too, even in black,

I'll confess to wearing slip-ons with a suit to work though - simply more comfortable ( and I have bought fitted shoes down Jermyn Street before).

Ties are becoming less prevalent these days - interview - yes wear one, after that go with the flow.

shaunyshaun1234

Dopesick said:

So fucking glad I don't have to wear a suit in my job. In fact I absolutely detest wearing a suit altogether. I even hate turning up every day for work in normal office attire, it's like I'm operating inside the body of a bloody alien (thank fuck for casual Friday). I understand the value of appropriate attire because it makes things more 'neutral; but every job interview I've had has me cautious about how much of a complete knob I look with my tie done up to eleven and my fancy shiny shoes and my lovely smooth shirt and jacket overflowing of swag and oh lah-di-fucking-dah...

Wait..do people really turn up to job interviews in t-shirts?

When I have to suit up for work, I feel a sense of pride in looking smart and actually feel quite good. Not sure if that's right or not.