Brexit legal challenge suceeds. Discuss.

stimpsonslostson

Parliament must vote on whether to trigger Article 50.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-37820974

What happens next? 

If parliament votes to remain it's a big slap in the face for Theresa May, and could spell the end of Nicola Sturgeons IndyRef2 hopes.

Sporky

All it is is that Parliament has to discuss and vote on it.

Which seems proper to me.

Fretwired

There's already a thread on this in SC.

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/87380/article-50-no-10-says-high-court-says-yes/p1

stimpsonslostson

Fretwired said:

There's already a thread on this in SC.

OK. As you were.

stickyfiddle

I am transferring a big chunk of a house deposit from sterling to dollars next week. This news couldn't have come at a better time

dtr

I hope this means that the government will have to come up with a persuasive plan for Brexit.  The problem with voting "no to something" is that it doesn't give any scrutiny to what to say yes to.  Voting no to a poke in the eye isn't an allowance for anyone to kick you in the balls.

We have a prime minister saying one thing to Goldman Sachs' bankers and another to the public, a government making promises to Nissan that it isn't making to British business, and every cabinet member pushing for Brexit seems to have an entirely different plan and vision to their colleagues.

That seems like exactly the kind of situation where the government needs to get it's act together and come up with a plan that is sufficiently well thought out that it can persuade a majority of MPs to accept it.  I doubt the current half-baked confusion would persuade many.  The referendum gave a clear result, but not a license to rush ahead like half-witted idiots with muddled messages and no clear idea.  How can scrutiny to make sure that our goals for our future relationship with the EU are clearly established, communicated to the public and acceptable to our democratically elected parliament be a bad thing?

UnclePsychosis

Cue lots of people who campaigned to "return control"  to UK courts and UK parliament complaining that UK courts have ruled that UK parliament must have control. 

Fretwired

stimpsonslostson said:

Parliament must vote on whether to trigger Article 50.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-37820974

What happens next? 

If parliament votes to remain it's a big slap in the face for Theresa May, and could spell the end of Nicola Sturgeons IndyRef2 hopes.

End of the Tory Party, the government will fall and Corbyn will be PM .. :-)

Myranda

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

Fretwired

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

Myranda

Fretwired said:

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

You can negotiate unless you plan on somehow blackmailing your counter parts...

And there's a difference between an outline of desired outcomes to the specifics and minutia... currently no plan of any sort is in evidence only "we'll get the best deal we can" well if we're offered a shit sandwich and nothing else it would still be the best deal we got... still not a good deal though.

It should be for parliament to decide what is a good deal... not one person who won't even say what she thinks a good deal looks like

Drew_TNBD

Fretwired said:

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

Goodbye small independent tribes and hello New World Order.

Jalapeno

Storm in a teacup. Vote Article 50, Yes/No. Then carry on as before (assuming Yes), or the return of Nigel Farage & popular uprising if the "will of the people" is thwarted.

crunchman

Myranda said:

Fretwired said:

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

You can negotiate unless you plan on somehow blackmailing your counter parts...

And there's a difference between an outline of desired outcomes to the specifics and minutia... currently no plan of any sort is in evidence only "we'll get the best deal we can" well if we're offered a shit sandwich and nothing else it would still be the best deal we got... still not a good deal though.

It should be for parliament to decide what is a good deal... not one person who won't even say what she thinks a good deal looks like

It would be stupid to spell out in Parliament what you are trying to get in the negotiations.  May would say we want such and such.  All Europe would have to do is refuse the things May says she wants and then the remoaners in Parliament would try to block Brexit - until they lose their seats at the next election.  Meanwhile the whole process will drag on and on and on which won't be good for anyone.

To be honest, once article 50 is triggered we leave after 2 years anyway in a "hard" Brexit.  If Parliament blocks triggering it then May will call an election at which the Tories will massively increase their majority based on current polls and push it through anyway.

ESBlonde

We might state our goals well in advance, but that is meaningless if our former friends have a different agenda which is also dictated by the internal politics of several member states undergoing elections.

Having the PM keep her cards close to her chest seems like the strongest position for the benefit of the nation. having a bunch of talkers puff up their self esteem and make political points for their respective constituents cannot be justified as good for the country if we are to move forward with the nations 'choice'.

Fretwired

Myranda said:

Fretwired said:

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

You can negotiate unless you plan on somehow blackmailing your counter parts...

And there's a difference between an outline of desired outcomes to the specifics and minutia... currently no plan of any sort is in evidence only "we'll get the best deal we can" well if we're offered a shit sandwich and nothing else it would still be the best deal we got... still not a good deal though.

It should be for parliament to decide what is a good deal... not one person who won't even say what she thinks a good deal looks like

OK. One example. Free movement. You will never get parliament to agree before May trots off for a chat with Merkel and co. Now May could have already decided that access to the EU's free market is more important than blocking migrants and plans to come back wringing her hands saying this is the best deal I can get - access to the free market but no block on free movement. She won't want to advertise that in advance as all hell with break lose in the press. She'll want to be 'brow beaten' by the EU until she 'gives in' .. they think they've won a major concession. That's how it works. Publishing your plan in advance guarantees you'll get a worse deal.

But she won't get to trigger Article 50 as MPs shout at each other and parts of the press yell racist at anyone who wants to stop free movement. The BBC has just gone into pro EU anti-Tory overdrive .. what's it going to be like trying to get to trigger A50. I'd say impossible.

Let May go and get a deal and then MPs can vote on it or bin Brexit.

axisus

Could this lead to a Brentrance?

stickyfiddle

crunchman said:

Myranda said:

Fretwired said:

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

You can negotiate unless you plan on somehow blackmailing your counter parts...

And there's a difference between an outline of desired outcomes to the specifics and minutia... currently no plan of any sort is in evidence only "we'll get the best deal we can" well if we're offered a shit sandwich and nothing else it would still be the best deal we got... still not a good deal though.

It should be for parliament to decide what is a good deal... not one person who won't even say what she thinks a good deal looks like

It would be stupid to spell out in Parliament what you are trying to get in the negotiations.  May would say we want such and such.  All Europe would have to do is refuse the things May says she wants and then the remoaners in Parliament would try to block Brexit - until they lose their seats at the next election.  Meanwhile the whole process will drag on and on and on which won't be good for anyone.

To be honest, once article 50 is triggered we leave after 2 years anyway in a "hard" Brexit.  If Parliament blocks triggering it then May will call an election at which the Tories will massively increase their majority based on current polls and push it through anyway.

May can't call an election - it doesn't work like that any more.

Parliament will probably block the triggering of A50. Everyone in the government will look stupid. Everyone will continue all this childish in-fighting and name-calling for several more years. 

I'm just glad the pound's up.

ESchap

Couldn't run a p'up in a brewery, and I don't just meant the Tories ...

 

jpttaylor

axisus said:

Could this lead to a Brentrance?

Jalapeno

stickyfiddle said:

crunchman said:

Myranda said:

Fretwired said:

Myranda said:

Hopefully, this will mean that May will need to prove she has a plan by spelling it out, rather than parroting "Brexit means brexit" ... you really should try Prime Minister to avoid using the word you're trying to define in the definition. 

Keeping her plan to herself seems much more like not having a plan... and given our economy hinges on it we might like to know that our best interests are protected 

But you can't negotiate like that - a public discussion in parliament and then you go over to Brussels. They'll see you coming - you cannot negotiate a deal like Brexit in public. Trust me - Brexit is dead.

You can negotiate unless you plan on somehow blackmailing your counter parts...

And there's a difference between an outline of desired outcomes to the specifics and minutia... currently no plan of any sort is in evidence only "we'll get the best deal we can" well if we're offered a shit sandwich and nothing else it would still be the best deal we got... still not a good deal though.

It should be for parliament to decide what is a good deal... not one person who won't even say what she thinks a good deal looks like

It would be stupid to spell out in Parliament what you are trying to get in the negotiations.  May would say we want such and such.  All Europe would have to do is refuse the things May says she wants and then the remoaners in Parliament would try to block Brexit - until they lose their seats at the next election.  Meanwhile the whole process will drag on and on and on which won't be good for anyone.

To be honest, once article 50 is triggered we leave after 2 years anyway in a "hard" Brexit.  If Parliament blocks triggering it then May will call an election at which the Tories will massively increase their majority based on current polls and push it through anyway.

May can't call an election - it doesn't work like that any more.

If May makes iarticle50  a vote of Confidence and loses, she can I believe call a general election.