Noel Gallagher on Jazz

ToneControl

Fretwired said:

He's actually quite funny ... NWS at the end .. f-word.

mind you, he is a very witty piss-taker,
so not to be taken too seriously

menamestom

Jazz is more like Rum than beer, It can be much better when mixed down with something - Blue Jazz (Jimmy Smith, Grant Green), Jazz funk (Billy Cobham, New Mastersounds, John Scofield), Dub Jazz (Ernest Rangin), Jazz Rock (Zappa, Doors), folk Jazz (Van Morrison, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn), Pop Jazz (Norah Jones), Latin Jazz.  Straight Jazz I prefer older styles where it's more about the melody and nice chord tones rather than too much dissonant.  Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Joe Pass etc are the kind of players who played for the tune.  Martin Taylor is a great player too.  

Bucket

This song is a work of art - I like it far more than anything Oasis have ever done.



I like Noel - he's funny as fuck and I think he's a better musician than he seems to get credit for (on here at least). I don't think that video is to be taken too seriously, we all know he likes to take the piss and drop soundbites.

ThePrettyDamned

impmann said:

Fretwired said:

The great British jazz guitarist Derek Bailey .. I expect lots of lols, wows and wiz's if you don't like this .... ;-)

Fuck my wellington boots - it sounds like someone who genuinely cannot play.

Avant-garde Jazz is another way of saying "unlistenable nonsense" - there are exceptions, such as Captain Beefheart. However, improvised stuff like this is twaddle. Nels Cline is a great player, but some of the god-awful "improvisations" he has done, especially with that prat from Sonic Youth who can't tune a guitar are just rubbish.

Jazz is a broad church - Bing Crosby, Les Paul, Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt and if you want to include bollocks like this noise, all of them are classed as 'Jazz'... as was blues at one time.

Noel is just having a laugh - he likes winding people up and saying things that get him noticed...

Who's that chap who has that hilarious dumble video. If you listen and watch, it's clear he can really play the guitar - he just chooses not to. 

Bizarre. I wonder if this chap is similar. 

ThePrettyDamned

I heard a Joe Pass song on the radio the other day and it was just really shitty, unmelodic shredding over some chords. There was a melody at the start and then it was mostly just speed for the sake of it. 

But I do like some jazz - it's a massive genre. Buckethead has done some interesting stuff, and some of his atonal playing fits in context - more than could be said of that Joe Pass song (not heard any others of his). 

monquixote

ThePrettyDamned said:

I heard a Joe Pass song on the radio the other day and it was just really shitty, unmelodic shredding over some chords. There was a melody at the start and then it was mostly just speed for the sake of it. 

But I do like some jazz - it's a massive genre. Buckethead has done some interesting stuff, and some of his atonal playing fits in context - more than could be said of that Joe Pass song (not heard any others of his). 

Listen to Fitzgerald and Pass Again, one of my favorite jazz albums:

ThePrettyDamned

monquixote said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I heard a Joe Pass song on the radio the other day and it was just really shitty, unmelodic shredding over some chords. There was a melody at the start and then it was mostly just speed for the sake of it. 

But I do like some jazz - it's a massive genre. Buckethead has done some interesting stuff, and some of his atonal playing fits in context - more than could be said of that Joe Pass song (not heard any others of his). 

Listen to Fitzgerald and Pass Again, one of my favorite jazz albums:

Forgot about this! Yes, I have heard some Joe Pass I like. Spectacular vocal performances too. 

This was the album I'd heard that inspired me to try to learn jazz. Sadly it didn't work out as I just didn't have the time. Perhaps I'll take it up again. 

Moltisanti

i did watch the Oasis film yesterday in response to this and much to my surprise Liam actually comes across quite well (while being a nutter), and Noel comes over as a control freak and a bit of an egomaniac.

Back to the subject at hand, i really struggle when people play "outside" guitar parts, people like Mike Landau who tons of guitarists have a massive boner for do nothing for me - i just can;t hear whatever is "good" about it

boogieman

ThePrettyDamned said:

impmann said:

Fretwired said:

The great British jazz guitarist Derek Bailey .. I expect lots of lols, wows and wiz's if you don't like this .... ;-)

Who's that chap who has that hilarious dumble video. If you listen and watch, it's clear he can really play the guitar - he just chooses not to. 

Bizarre. I wonder if this chap is similar. 

Henry Kaiser? 

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

impmann said:

Fretwired said:

The great British jazz guitarist Derek Bailey .. I expect lots of lols, wows and wiz's if you don't like this .... ;-)

Fuck my wellington boots - it sounds like someone who genuinely cannot play.

Avant-garde Jazz is another way of saying "unlistenable nonsense" - there are exceptions, such as Captain Beefheart. However, improvised stuff like this is twaddle. Nels Cline is a great player, but some of the god-awful "improvisations" he has done, especially with that prat from Sonic Youth who can't tune a guitar are just rubbish.

Jazz is a broad church - Bing Crosby, Les Paul, Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt and if you want to include bollocks like this noise, all of them are classed as 'Jazz'... as was blues at one time.

Noel is just having a laugh - he likes winding people up and saying things that get him noticed...

Who's that chap who has that hilarious dumble video. If you listen and watch, it's clear he can really play the guitar - he just chooses not to. 

Bizarre. I wonder if this chap is similar.

Yes, I think so - I think Bailey can play quite well, if you watch that video there are bits which show that, you can't fake being able play complex chord shapes in time like that if you can't. In fact, you might say it takes a highly developed command of the instrument to improvise continuously for over five minutes without playing two successive notes that sound like they belong together .

Actually, it's not *that* much more atonal-sounding than some non-Western music forms, especially from the far east - I've got a couple of albums of traditional Tibetan and Indonesian temple music that aren't far off as discordant and odd.

EricTheWeary

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

impmann said:

Fretwired said:

The great British jazz guitarist Derek Bailey .. I expect lots of lols, wows and wiz's if you don't like this .... ;-)

Fuck my wellington boots - it sounds like someone who genuinely cannot play.

Avant-garde Jazz is another way of saying "unlistenable nonsense" - there are exceptions, such as Captain Beefheart. However, improvised stuff like this is twaddle. Nels Cline is a great player, but some of the god-awful "improvisations" he has done, especially with that prat from Sonic Youth who can't tune a guitar are just rubbish.

Jazz is a broad church - Bing Crosby, Les Paul, Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt and if you want to include bollocks like this noise, all of them are classed as 'Jazz'... as was blues at one time.

Noel is just having a laugh - he likes winding people up and saying things that get him noticed...

Who's that chap who has that hilarious dumble video. If you listen and watch, it's clear he can really play the guitar - he just chooses not to. 

Bizarre. I wonder if this chap is similar.

Yes, I think so - I think Bailey can play quite well, if you watch that video there are bits which show that, you can't fake being able play complex chord shapes in time like that if you can't. In fact, you might say it takes a highly developed command of the instrument to improvise continuously for over five minutes without playing two successive notes that sound like they belong together .

Actually, it's not *that* much more atonal-sounding than some non-Western music forms, especially from the far east - I've got a couple of albums of traditional Tibetan and Indonesian temple music that aren't far off as discordant and odd.

I've heard interviews with him and they usually start with something like ' can you play the guitar normally?'  and he plays some jazz stuff. 

Dominic

Dolly Parton said " It takes a lot of money to look this cheap !"
Bailey etc are the musical equivalent - of course he can play good simple jazz standards but that is exactly the problem with a lot of Jazz musicians ,especially modern ,free and Avant Garde Jazz ........they are all  great musicians to begin with but trying so hard to out-weird each other or play some musical one-upmanship game .........
" Oh ,didn't you realise you could play the Klingon minor Cacophonic to outline the 2nd Quartal Harmony substitution !!! "
 Indeed if you put 6 of them on a stage all trying to do this to one-another it descends into Bullshit pretty quickly !
I like melody driven " dinner -jazz " but I'm not clever enough for anything I can't whistle or hum the tune of 5 minutes later .

Reverend

I think Sketches Of Spain is a great way way to start with jazz. 
Great playing of course,  but great melodies and great arrangements. 

siraxeman

boogieman said:

 

Henry Kaiser? 

Oh...wow. That was amazing. What a waste of battery power on the camera.

ThePrettyDamned

siraxeman said:

boogieman said:

 

Henry Kaiser? 

Oh...wow. That was amazing. What a waste of battery power on the camera.

That's a bad video, yes, but he has others where he plays "songs" - it's very atonal improv, with talking over. So he uses the music to help carry a spoken word story. It's utterly bizarre but obvious that he can play if he wants. 

siraxeman

here in the first 3 mins Spinal Tap talk about Jazz....

ToneControl

Bucket said:

This song is a work of art - I like it far more than anything Oasis have ever done.



I like Noel - he's funny as fuck and I think he's a better musician than he seems to get credit for (on here at least). I don't think that video is to be taken too seriously, we all know he likes to take the piss and drop soundbites.

Oasis stuck to their formula, who can blame them
This is not too bad, still too much bloody compression though

ToneControl

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

impmann said:

Fretwired said:

The great British jazz guitarist Derek Bailey .. I expect lots of lols, wows and wiz's if you don't like this .... ;-)

Fuck my wellington boots - it sounds like someone who genuinely cannot play.

Avant-garde Jazz is another way of saying "unlistenable nonsense" - there are exceptions, such as Captain Beefheart. However, improvised stuff like this is twaddle. Nels Cline is a great player, but some of the god-awful "improvisations" he has done, especially with that prat from Sonic Youth who can't tune a guitar are just rubbish.

Jazz is a broad church - Bing Crosby, Les Paul, Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt and if you want to include bollocks like this noise, all of them are classed as 'Jazz'... as was blues at one time.

Noel is just having a laugh - he likes winding people up and saying things that get him noticed...

Who's that chap who has that hilarious dumble video. If you listen and watch, it's clear he can really play the guitar - he just chooses not to. 

Bizarre. I wonder if this chap is similar.

Yes, I think so - I think Bailey can play quite well, if you watch that video there are bits which show that, you can't fake being able play complex chord shapes in time like that if you can't. In fact, you might say it takes a highly developed command of the instrument to improvise continuously for over five minutes without playing two successive notes that sound like they belong together .

Actually, it's not *that* much more atonal-sounding than some non-Western music forms, especially from the far east - I've got a couple of albums of traditional Tibetan and Indonesian temple music that aren't far off as discordant and odd.

From these links I saw at least 2 videos where he plays the same  piece,  so it's certainly not random,  or improvised.
Still not really very listenable though.  

I think the problem is that he's the guitarist equivalent of the Emperor's new clothes - he only uses the noises everyone else would reject as not musical.  An intellectual exercise that does not guarantee or facilitate great art.

ToneControl

ThePrettyDamned said:

siraxeman said:

boogieman said:

 

Henry Kaiser? 

Oh...wow. That was amazing. What a waste of battery power on the camera.

That's a bad video, yes, but he has others where he plays "songs" - it's very atonal improv, with talking over. So he uses the music to help carry a spoken word story. It's utterly bizarre but obvious that he can play if he wants. 

Probably easier to  pursue a musical career like his  with his inherited wealth than without

PolarityMan

DrJazzTap said:

 Somebody said to me "you always take the piss out of thing's you don't understand".

Yeah but I also take the piss out of stuff I do understand. Inf act stuff probably doesnt even have to actually exist for me to take the piss out of it like that hydro-electric moon rocket that looks extremely phallic.