Terry Morgan 59 Reissue

Plectrum

dindude said:

Why are people so obsessed with bursts that they're willing to spend 10k on one. Even if you have the best one ever it still won't sound as a good as an average Strat for goodness sake. Get a grip.

Many a true word ....

WezV

Iamnobody said:

The wear on the back by the toggle switch cavity plate looks very fake to me...

I know it is fake - but what I'm saying is I have seen better recreations of wear than that.

That looks shit. This is the real thing:



TM's relicing would be laughed at on a £200 Vintage or Joe Bloggs' effort in his bedroom with his belt sander...

A bit of a freeze spray look to the crazing too. 

Strat54

Plectrum said:

Given that UK Customs are starting to impound/destroy Chibsons, presumably in response to complaints from Gibson, I hope that it's only a matter of time before Atoyboy's supplier has to be just that for a group of "old lags".

Most of their vintage stock comes from US dealers like Jay Rosen. I quite often see guitars advertised in the U.S appear on Atoyboys website a month later. Bet none of the UK vintage dealers pay the correct duty either!

guitars4you

Strat54 said:

Plectrum said:

Given that UK Customs are starting to impound/destroy Chibsons, presumably in response to complaints from Gibson, I hope that it's only a matter of time before Atoyboy's supplier has to be just that for a group of "old lags".

Most of their vintage stock comes from US dealers like Jay Rosen. I quite often see guitars advertised in the U.S appear on Atoyboys website a month later. Bet none of the UK vintage dealers pay the correct duty either!

Very eagle eyed of you  - Years ago it was worth going to the big USA vintage shows and bring back a number of guitars via a shipping agent - But that has changed now with a poor £ v $ rate

If such a dealer imports  1 or 2 guitars from the USA, via the usual UPS style couriers, then it is very hard to avoid any import duty and vat as appropriate, as the shipping agents become the 'tax collector' - Granted if they are bringing back 1 guitar, as personal luggage with them on a flight from the USA, they might be able to 'smuggle' it in - Bring back 2/3/4 guitars then the airline company will charge for luggage and you'd be lucky not to attract any attention from a customs officer in the green isle when arriving in the UK/EU  - You might be able to carry 1 guitar on the plane as personal luggage but certainly not 2 or 3

But a number of other issues - They might be able to get the USA dealer to show a sales receipt with a lower value, hence less duty and vat is payable on arrival in the UK, but that also means any insurance claim that might arise, due to damage in transit, will only cover that lower nominated value

The big issue now is CITES - even if you now import into the EU a  guitar with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard that was made prior to 1992, it still requires a new certificate - in fact 2 certificates - 1 to leave the USA and 1 for arrival into the EU - Without this CITES certificate you are breaking the law and the guitar can be confiscated if caught - Different criteria if the guitar was already in the UK/EU prior to 1992 - but 'fresh imports' require such a certificate

They may well be buying from such a source, but new regulations make it harder and more red tape than before

guitars4you

some boomerang attached to this blog - just keeps coming back time after time

bingefeller

rossi said:

How do we know its not  Gibson   faking TM's?

Now That's a thought......

crunchman

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

Plectrum said:

Given that UK Customs are starting to impound/destroy Chibsons, presumably in response to complaints from Gibson, I hope that it's only a matter of time before Atoyboy's supplier has to be just that for a group of "old lags".

Most of their vintage stock comes from US dealers like Jay Rosen. I quite often see guitars advertised in the U.S appear on Atoyboys website a month later. Bet none of the UK vintage dealers pay the correct duty either!

The big issue now is CITES - even if you now import into the EU a  guitar with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard that was made prior to 1992, it still requires a new certificate - in fact 2 certificates - 1 to leave the USA and 1 for arrival into the EU - Without this CITES certificate you are breaking the law and the guitar can be confiscated if caught - Different criteria if the guitar was already in the UK/EU prior to 1992 - but 'fresh imports' require such a certificate

For Brazilian rosewood, it's worse than that.  For commercial sales, the EU uses the same 1947 date as it does for ivory despite it not going on the CITES list until 1992.  You could bring a 65 Strat over from the US as a personal possession, but you couldn't legally sell it.  If it's already in the UK/EU you are ok, but you can't bring one across borders.

SteveRobinson

bingefeller said: no

rossi said:

How do we know its not  Gibson   faking TM's?

Now That's a thought......

They have of course copied Slash's guitar which was a fake made by another builder.

Strat54

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

Plectrum said:

Given that UK Customs are starting to impound/destroy Chibsons, presumably in response to complaints from Gibson, I hope that it's only a matter of time before Atoyboy's supplier has to be just that for a group of "old lags".

Most of their vintage stock comes from US dealers like Jay Rosen. I quite often see guitars advertised in the U.S appear on Atoyboys website a month later. Bet none of the UK vintage dealers pay the correct duty either!

Very eagle eyed of you  - Years ago it was worth going to the big USA vintage shows and bring back a number of guitars via a shipping agent - But that has changed now with a poor £ v $ rate

If such a dealer imports  1 or 2 guitars from the USA, via the usual UPS style couriers, then it is very hard to avoid any import duty and vat as appropriate, as the shipping agents become the 'tax collector' - Granted if they are bringing back 1 guitar, as personal luggage with them on a flight from the USA, they might be able to 'smuggle' it in - Bring back 2/3/4 guitars then the airline company will charge for luggage and you'd be lucky not to attract any attention from a customs officer in the green isle when arriving in the UK/EU  - You might be able to carry 1 guitar on the plane as personal luggage but certainly not 2 or 3

But a number of other issues - They might be able to get the USA dealer to show a sales receipt with a lower value, hence less duty and vat is payable on arrival in the UK, but that also means any insurance claim that might arise, due to damage in transit, will only cover that lower nominated value

The big issue now is CITES - even if you now import into the EU a  guitar with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard that was made prior to 1992, it still requires a new certificate - in fact 2 certificates - 1 to leave the USA and 1 for arrival into the EU - Without this CITES certificate you are breaking the law and the guitar can be confiscated if caught - Different criteria if the guitar was already in the UK/EU prior to 1992 - but 'fresh imports' require such a certificate

They may well be buying from such a source, but new regulations make it harder and more red tape than before

Wasn't atoyboy on ebay originally based in the U.S? By his own admission on his website he says he travels all over the world sourcing them. I know there's the insurance risk for lower declared values but I knew one dealer who would put copy Fender Custom Shop decals on the rear of headstocks to ship!
Sadly I have a guitar-photographic memory.....its a curse.

Here's a current Strat they have in the U.S...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0plon0zjm69i0d/jay59strat.jpg?raw=1

and in the UK....

http://www.audiotoyshop.com/store/p379/1959_Fender_Stratocaster_-_Single_Layer_Guard___OHSC.html

TimmyO

Strat54 said:

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

Plectrum said:

Given that UK Customs are starting to impound/destroy Chibsons, presumably in response to complaints from Gibson, I hope that it's only a matter of time before Atoyboy's supplier has to be just that for a group of "old lags".

Most of their vintage stock comes from US dealers like Jay Rosen. I quite often see guitars advertised in the U.S appear on Atoyboys website a month later. Bet none of the UK vintage dealers pay the correct duty either!

Very eagle eyed of you  - Years ago it was worth going to the big USA vintage shows and bring back a number of guitars via a shipping agent - But that has changed now with a poor £ v $ rate

If such a dealer imports  1 or 2 guitars from the USA, via the usual UPS style couriers, then it is very hard to avoid any import duty and vat as appropriate, as the shipping agents become the 'tax collector' - Granted if they are bringing back 1 guitar, as personal luggage with them on a flight from the USA, they might be able to 'smuggle' it in - Bring back 2/3/4 guitars then the airline company will charge for luggage and you'd be lucky not to attract any attention from a customs officer in the green isle when arriving in the UK/EU  - You might be able to carry 1 guitar on the plane as personal luggage but certainly not 2 or 3

But a number of other issues - They might be able to get the USA dealer to show a sales receipt with a lower value, hence less duty and vat is payable on arrival in the UK, but that also means any insurance claim that might arise, due to damage in transit, will only cover that lower nominated value

The big issue now is CITES - even if you now import into the EU a  guitar with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard that was made prior to 1992, it still requires a new certificate - in fact 2 certificates - 1 to leave the USA and 1 for arrival into the EU - Without this CITES certificate you are breaking the law and the guitar can be confiscated if caught - Different criteria if the guitar was already in the UK/EU prior to 1992 - but 'fresh imports' require such a certificate

They may well be buying from such a source, but new regulations make it harder and more red tape than before

Wasn't atoyboy on ebay originally based in the U.S? By his own admission on his website he says he travels all over the world sourcing them. I know there's the insurance risk for lower declared values but I knew one dealer who would put copy Fender Custom Shop decals on the rear of headstocks to ship!
Sadly I have a guitar-photographic memory.....its a curse.

Here's a current Strat they have in the U.S...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0plon0zjm69i0d/jay59strat.jpg?raw=1

and in the UK....

http://www.audiotoyshop.com/store/p379/1959_Fender_Stratocaster_-_Single_Layer_Guard___OHSC.html

I've met him (not as a customer! I wish...) and he his occasional escapades via Facebook. He is a really great guy. iirc he made his money owning/running recording studios and now does this. For the really expensive stuff he usually delivers it in person, and in those situations the guitar often gets the seat next to him.

What a life :-) 

Strat54

They seem pretty successful, always plenty of SOLDs on the site.....they just sold a £59k '54 Strat too!

richardhomer

Appeared again on my Facebook feed but Mr Atoyboy appears to have pulled the description from his site.

I wonder if he's had a 'cease and desist' from Henry?

Adipsia

An interesting discussion. I've owned quite a few Les Paul's Traditionals, R8/9's, a Historic Makeover 57-R9 conversion and most recently I acquired a 1995 Sid Poole. I also have a friend who owns a Terry Morgan 59 which I have played. As a result, I can see the arguments from all sides because I've played them through in my head. From a quality viewpoint, I have to say that my 59 Historic Makeover, the Terry Morgan and my Poole leave all Gibson Custom-Shop models in the dust. I now own just one Les Paul and it has the name Poole on the headstock. 

Kim La Fleur at Historic Makeovers and Florien Jaeger in Germany are taking Gibson Custom-Shop guitars and making them more authentic in a way that Gibson Custom-Shop ought to be doing. I find it bewildering that Gibson Custom-Shop almost annually come out with an ever more historically accurate copy of a vintage burst, that costs an arm and a leg... and yet they never quite get there. It's pathetic...

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a guitar that sounds and plays like a true vintage Les Paul should, you have three options open to you...a Gil Yarron, a Terry Morgan or a Sid Poole. Personally I'm happy with Poole at the top of my headstock because it looks, sounds and plays better than anything I've played created by Gibson Custom-Shop.

Adipsia

guitarblaster said:

I get why people want Gibson on the headstock - if it's such an accurate replica, then Gibson on the headstock completes that replication. I think it's the whole idea of having something that is as close as humanly possible to that original 59 that they otherwise could never get. The people buying these must absolutely love Les Pauls. If Gibson were making them as good, then there wouldn't be a market for these. I'm not a Les Paul guy, but that's just what I think. I know a fake is a fake, but I don't really see it in the same way if it's better than the real deal - it's more of an ultimate appreciation of a vintage Les Paul! 

I agree totally but I also think that matters such as resale value get dragged in to the equation... hence the need to have 'Gibson' on the headstock. My feel is that Terry Morgan owners buy one of Terry's guitars because of his reputation rather than Gibson's... the same with Sid Poole, although Sid's work bears his own name. My Sid Paul looks, feels, plays and sounds like a real Les Paul should... and I guess that's why Bernie Marsden went to Sid back in the 90's when he was looking to retire 'The Beast'.

jimmyguitar

Interesting reading guys!

I’ll chip in as I recently purchased a ‘Stig’ replica burst. It has a G logo but I honestly would have bought it if it had ‘I’m a dickhead’ inlaid instead as it’s quite simply stunning both in looks and playability.
https://i.imgur.com/OuCXk5e.jpg
Logos and brand names don’t bother me at all but I do like the classic LP design and shape so the other ‘nearly there’ luthier builds don’t do it for me aesthetically. I’m actually considering sending it back to the maker to inlay his own logo on it so I can show it off here without being dragged into a TM style thread! But just look at it!
https://i.imgur.com/10unyJ6.jpg

IvisonGuitars

That is stunning @jimmyguitar ;

scalino65

Did you get it off EH? I know he has a few of these and some stig gold tops, one with pafs in it.

scalino65

Did you get it off EH? I know he has a few of these and some stig gold tops, one with pafs in it.

jimmyguitar

scalino65 said:

Did you get it off EH? I know he has a few of these and some stig gold tops, one with pafs in it.

Yes! And my daughter managed to trip over the guitar cases and fall on said goldtops! Luckily both she and the goldtops were unharmed but i did almost pass out!

scalino65

So you let her out of the car this time:) did you try the gold Tops? Was very tempted by one of those. Was put off a bit by what to do if I decided to sell it on.