He's back to start a war on brexit

Evilmags

Either way it does not come close to billions of euros going to a single family. The corruption here is huge 

crunchman

Heartfeltdawn said:

As said previously, I would have gone for a multi-stage referendum. Something that has voting on specific issues rather than this 'in or out' approach. For example, a referendum on immigration alone would be a decidedly useful tool. 

Not possible.  The EU has made it very clear that freedom of movement is a non-negotiable condition of membership.

If you want a referendum on immigration it boils down to whether or not we stay in the EU.

ICBM

Evilmags said:

And have a corrupt mess like Spain or Greece?

Corruption and the electoral system are unrelated - there are plenty of more democratic countries which are less corrupt, and plenty of less democratic ones which are far more corrupt - so I'm not sure what your point is, other than that Spain and Greece are both corrupt, which is certainly true. So is Zimbabwe...

Fretwired

Evilmags said:

Fretwired said:

Evilmags said:

FPTP suits both main parties and gives us the myth that we get strong decisive government. They seem to avoid the fact that we don't get a government that over 50% of the population voted for so it's time for change.

I'd do four things:

1. Fund political parties from the public purse
2. Have a proper PR-based voting system
3. Have more accountable government by having a body that scrutinises manifesto pledges
4. Devolve more power to the regions

And have a corrupt mess like Spain or Greece?

And our politics is clean is it? Bankers give the Tories money out of the kindness of their hearts .. I don't think so. And we've seen how the Unions are in control of Corbyn's Labour.

Everything is relative. The UK imprisons them when caught. The most corrupt councils in the UK are all Labour (Glasgow, Tower Hamlets, Liverpool )

What about Tory Westminster Council's homes for votes scandal? It was gerrymandering ...

exocet

Fretwired said:

Evilmags said:

Fretwired said:

Evilmags said:

FPTP suits both main parties and gives us the myth that we get strong decisive government. They seem to avoid the fact that we don't get a government that over 50% of the population voted for so it's time for change.

I'd do four things:

1. Fund political parties from the public purse
2. Have a proper PR-based voting system
3. Have more accountable government by having a body that scrutinises manifesto pledges
4. Devolve more power to the regions

And have a corrupt mess like Spain or Greece?

And our politics is clean is it? Bankers give the Tories money out of the kindness of their hearts .. I don't think so. And we've seen how the Unions are in control of Corbyn's Labour.

Everything is relative. The UK imprisons them when caught. The most corrupt councils in the UK are all Labour (Glasgow, Tower Hamlets, Liverpool )

What about Tory Westminster Council's homes for votes scandal? It was gerrymandering ...

Dame Shirley? That wasn't gerrymandering, it was closer to ethnic cleansing

Heartfeltdawn

Brize said:

Cirrus said:

Brize, what conclusions would you draw if @Heartfeltdawn said he voted remain, out of interest?

That he's not as impartial as he purports to be.

Arkell vs. Pressdram should cover that assertion. 

Brize

Heartfeltdawn said:

Brize said:

Cirrus said:

Brize, what conclusions would you draw if @Heartfeltdawn said he voted remain, out of interest?

That he's not as impartial as he purports to be.

Arkell vs. Pressdram to you, Mr B. 

And the same compliment to you, my dear fellow. I think it's clear which horse you backed.

Heartfeltdawn

Brize said:

And the same compliment to you, my dear fellow. I think it's clear which horse you backed.

I think it's clear to most people how you ignored anything said and just went with the idea "If he backed Remain, he's biased". An attitude that is as stupid as anyone who said that all Leavers were xenophobic. 

As said earlier, the choice (vote Cameron machine versus vote Farage/Elliot machine) was lousy.  

Brize

Heartfeltdawn said:

Brize said:

And the same compliment to you, my dear fellow. I think it's clear which horse you backed.

I think it's clear to most people how you ignored anything said and just went with the idea "If he backed Remain, he's biased". An attitude that is as stupid as anyone who said that all Leavers were xenophobic. 

As said earlier, the choice (vote Cameron machine versus vote Farage/Elliot machine) was lousy.  

And yet you refuse to say whether you voted.

Cirrus

Probably because it was clear where you were heading, and watching you slowly blunder towards your blinkered viewpoint is tedious at best?

Or maybe because he saw that you had him marked as the hypocrite he is, and tried to avoid your clever trap.

draw your own conclusions. 

Heartfeltdawn

Cirrus said:

Probably because it was clear where you were heading, and watching you slowly blunder towards your blinkered viewpoint is tedious at best?

Or maybe because he saw that you had him marked as the hypocrite he is, and tried to avoid your clever trap.

Which technically makes me Admiral Ackbar. I am fine with this. 

Skipped

I am always interested in what the forum see as "political earthquake" news stories.

In fact....it is amazing that the Operation Conifer "leak" has not been discussed this week. I am wondering if the leak was to prepare the public for the next leak. Which is that the crimes are much more serious than suggested in the first leak.

Heartfeltdawn

Skipped said:

I am always interested in what the forum see as "political earthquake" news stories.

In fact....it is amazing that the Operation Conifer "leak" has not been discussed this week. I am wondering if the leak was to prepare the public for the next leak. Which is that the crimes are much more serious than suggested in the first leak.

I'll wait until the police release something official as most of the gossip comes from a Mail story featuring a source rather than a named individual. Undoubtedly a detailed investigation is taking place though. 

Brize

Cirrus said:

Probably because it was clear where you were heading, and watching you slowly blunder towards your blinkered viewpoint is tedious at best?

Or maybe because he saw that you had him marked as the hypocrite he is, and tried to avoid your clever trap.

It's clear that Mr 'I would support a halt of all Brexit movements' @Heartfeltdawn is anything but impartial. There's nothing more tedious than someone refusing to answer a straight question.

On the upside, it did prompt me to view his profile and see his avatar in its full glory.

ICBM

Brize said:

There's nothing more tedious than someone refusing to answer a straight question.

Actually there is - insisting on an answer to a question when it's obvious from the previous argument that the questioner will not accept the answer impartially.

You may as well ask if he's stopped beating his wife yet.

Brize

ICBM said:

Brize said:

There's nothing more tedious than someone refusing to answer a straight question.

Actually there is - insisting on an answer to a question when it's obvious from the previous argument that the questioner will not accept the answer impartially.

When somebody says 'Neither platform was for me' to assert their purported impartiality,  I think it reasonable to ask if they voted and, if so, in which direction.

ICBM

Brize said:

When somebody says 'Neither platform was for me' to assert their purported impartiality,  I think it reasonable to ask if they voted and, if so, in which direction.

Not necessarily. For me neither side had anything like a convincing case either, and it only got worse during the campaign. How I voted was not determined by anything that any of them said as far as I know.

I think you can also be impartial even though you have a personal view - as in the current argument about the Speaker. (Who I hope keeps his job.) The arguments can be looked at even-handedly and don't necessarily reflect your own position.

I voted remain, before you ask .

Brize

ICBM said:

I think you can also be impartial even though you have a personal view

So, somebody who voted Remain, and who is arguing for 'a halt of all Brexit movements', is impartial? Yeah, right. 

Myranda

Not sure if the sentiment has been voiced... but in the past I was quite strongly remain... now that Tony Blair has started to campaign to remain (really good timing TB... maybe think about campaigning before the vote, not after) I'm thinking that it must be wrong to remain... 

It was fine when real people were saying remain... but that smug faced fecker saying remain makes me wonder if I was somehow wrong

Axe_meister

I wonder if the leave vote would have been higher without the likes of Nigel Farage/Gove/Boris.
I was teetering on the brink, of leave, but because of  these rather deplorable characters (and others in the UKIP movement) I went with remain. Without them I think we may have had fewer "silent leavers"