He's back to start a war on brexit

FX_Munkee

Brize said:

Reverend said:

It was also made very clear by one side that voting leave would mean an extra £350 million a week for the NHS. 

And by the other side that there would be an immediate emergency budget in the event of a Leave vote. Your point being?

I think his point is that it is/was impossible to tell whether that point was one of the completely made up ones or not. Seeing as it turns out (unsurprisingly) that both sides spouted a vast amount of bullshit.

chugington

Blair getting involved is surely the kiss of death for anyone who wants a Brexit rethink. Political heavyweight? Yes, ok. Heavyweight sociopath? Most definitely.

Sambostar

@vale the tories won the general election with 37% of the votes but took 51% of the seats. 

Voter turnout was 66% which means they effectively has 24% of the vote.

4.9 million votes secured 56 SNP MPs, 8 Lib Dem MPs and one Green Party MP.

3.9 million votes secured a single filthy UKIP appendage MP.


In 1997 voter turnout fell to 71.4% and when Blair was reelected in 2001, voter turnout was 59.4%, only 2% higher than the record lowest turnout recorded in 1918 after WW1 and labour one with 42% of the votes., it feel again to 59.4%.

Look at the damage he has done and legacy he has left, both domestically and with regard to foreign policy.


Voter turnout for the EU Referendum was 72.2%.  Like it or not this is historically in line with voter turnout since 1945 and well above any election since John Major was elected in 1992 which was 77.7% with only the Harold Wilson in Feburatu 1974 beating it with 78.8% voter turnout.

However, look at the numbers who actually voted.

In 1974 general election, the total electorate was 39,798,899
In 1992 general election, the total electorate was 43,249,721
In 1997 general election, the total electorate was 43,714,673
In 2001 general election, the total electorate was 44,374,047
In 2005 general election, the total electorate was 44,180,243
In 2010 general election, the total electorate was 45,597,461
In 2015 general election, the total electorate was 46,425,386

In 2016 EU referendum, the total electorate was 46,501,241

EU citizens residing in the UK are not eligible to vote in General elections or the EU Referendum in the UK


So, if you want to talk fundamentals and addressing the will of the people, it's not shite, it's never been more fairly represented if you ask me.

Anyway, UKIP are the only conservative party left, the rest are all various degrees of liberal.

ICBM

Dear Tony

Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iraq, making millions from being a Middle East 'Peace Envoy', Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, PFI, PFI, giving Gordon your job, Iraq.

Now just fuck off.

Yours sincerely,

The British People

Garthy

ICBM said:

Dear Tony

Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iraq, making millions from being a Middle East 'Peace Envoy', Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, PFI, PFI, giving Gordon your job, Iraq.

Now just fuck off.

Yours sincerely,

The British People

ps: Wants Presidential job in Europe. This isn't an altruistic move by Blair to help the Remainers stay within the EU. He is exploitive in the extreme.

Fretwired

Snap said:

I like Tony Blair. He's the last political heavyweight we've had, the rest have been anodyne lightweights.

With Iraq, I do think he acted genuinely in that he was convinced that going to war was the right thing to do. The war over shadowed everything else he achieved in government, and what he did for the Labour party. Labour has been on a downward tailspin since he packed in.

Love him or loathe him, Blair is good for politics. He's got clout, and people listen when he says something: just look at the reaction he's caused today. He is a "proper" poltician: he has gravitas, he talks sensibly and he is balanced and persuasive in his argument. He was the first politician who persuaded me to vote Labour, in 1997. I can't see myself even considering voting Labour again, not in the current state of the party.

I'd have him go further, and start a new political party. There are rumours that he is planning this. Who knows?

What have you been smoking ... :-)

Blair was great mates with Murdoch, he screwed the NHS, cut benefits let the City of London run riot (we know where that got us) and then decided to go to war for his Thatcher moment. Iraq was an unmitigated disaster - no thought went into what would happen when Saddam had gone and no appreciation of the fact that Iraq needed a strongman like Saddam to keep the peace. The British army was ill-equipped and underprepared and people died as a result. All for one man's vanity project.

Clarky

I really don't understand what Blair means by rise up..
the decision to leave will not be changed
May will forge ahead with Art 50 and the UK will leave..

does he think that protests in various forms will make any difference??
I just don't see how they can..
it'll just be a pile of people singing and waving flags in demonstrations, signing petitions etc..
but all that has happened already..

nothing he says or tries to do will make any difference..
the vote happened, the result is what it is like it or not [which I personally don't]
but everything he says seems pointless
the UK is now on a set path with no turning back..
we just got to make the best of it [which includes us lot that wanted to remain]

Sambostar

He should be prosecuted under his own 1998 Crime and Disorder Act and given life Imprisonment.  Or maybe arrested and withheld indefinitely under the 2000 Terrorism Act, that would be sweet irony.  But thought not, one law for him, another law for the rest of us.





Anti-social behaviour orders.

(1)An application for an order under this section may be made by a relevant authority if it appears to the authority that the following conditions are fulfilled with respect to any person aged 10 or over, namely—

(a)that the person has acted, since the commencement date, in an anti-social manner, that is to say, in a manner that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household as himself; and

[F1(b)that such an order is necessary to protect relevant persons from further anti-social acts by him.

Evilmags

It was the Bank of England and Brown that encouraged the city to run riot. As soon as Labour took power in 1997 you can intermediately see the money supply loosen. Brown actually increased regulatory cost massively during his time at the treasury and made banking regulation statutory, (The previous regime was self regulated). In 4 years he more than doubled the money supply while selling off assets such as gold that underpinned the value of money. That is why their eas a horrible recession. 

boogieman

Snap said:

I like Tony Blair. He's the last political heavyweight we've had, the rest have been anodyne lightweights.

With Iraq, I do think he acted genuinely in that he was convinced that going to war was the right thing to do

Have you read the Chilcott Report? Blair acted in nobody's interest except his own and that of the US. He knew, and chose to ignore the fact, that there was no genuine threat from WMD. He'd already declared himself allied with Bush before he knew all the facts. "We'll stand with you no matter what". He's a war criminal as far as I'm concerned and has got off extremely lightly. He should be in prison not spioutng off about Brexit. He's also a cunt. 

impmann

Blair should be making arguments in the Hague for war crimes, not trying to sway voters *AFTER* the vote. Horse - stable door - bolted, and all that.

FWIW, I voted remain. However, we have voted to leave. Therefore I'm outvoted. Whilst I'm not massively happy about it, its the will of the country... therefore so be it and now, lets make the best of it.

mellowsun

hotpot said:

Why do these people have a problem with a democratic vote result! Do they want to keep having referendums until the desired vote goes their way!

Because we have parliamentary democracy rather than government by plebiscite 

Evilmags

We have constitutional Monarchy and a bipartite political system. A referendum is to be obeyed by those who called it. To be fair to Corbyn he did take a hard call on article 50. But in doing so he made very clear the divide between white working class and metropolitan virtue signaler. Whether his party can survive that is an open question. May is getting more popular and Sturgeon (The only serious leftie with real power) is on the wane. On current polling, I´d expect the Tories to gain 60 seats and UKIP 10. The LibDems simply don´t have close to the critical mass to make an impact-

Brize

I've just watched Blair's press conference. I wish someone would tell the odious cunt that there's no G in Brexit.

Sporky

Evilmags said:

the divide between white working class and metropolitan virtue signaler

Which are you?

prowla

RobDavies said:

randella said:

axisus said:

Can't stand him. I'd prefer to never see or hear from him again. I honestly don't think it helps any cause in the world having him on your team. 

What cause? Remain doesn't have a cause, May's going to do what the hell she likes. Any last vestiges of hope for Remain having a bit of a say in Brexit were fucked out of the water by Corbyn. 

He's ruffling feathers is Tone, and it's only just gone ten am.  Got me popcorn ready. 

Speaking as someone who is slightly left of centre, the best thing that can happen for us "remainers" is that the likes of Blair, Corbyn and Abbot just fuck off.

Let someone with some respect and credibility upset the applecart.

Yep - Bliar, Brown & Obama helped the Brexit cause no-end, along with the negotiator Sir bloke who quit recently.

I think Corbyn is really just being true and showed a very lukewarm attitude to the EU, so why should he take up the lost Remain cause.

Heartfeltdawn

Cirrus said:

Brize said:

Cirrus said:

It's about having a problem with taking a result that had a very narrow majority and using it as a mandate to pursue a very hard-line policy which was not made explicit to the voting public at the time. 48% of the voters definitely didn't want what's happening now, and of the 52% who voted leave, I don't think it would be unfair to say a portion of them didn't think leaving the EU political organisation also meant automatically leaving the economic/ trading partnership too.

It was made very clear, by both sides, that leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union.

For all the talk of dishonesty during the referendum campaign, this narrative that Leavers didn't know that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market is bizarre and disingenuous.

I absolutely concede that it was made clear. That's not my point.

I'm saying, if 4% of leave voters didn't want to leave the single market... well, suddenly there isn't a majority mandate to do that any more. The government is claiming a mandate to do things where it isn't clear at all that they have one.

I'm saying that in the maelstrom last year of politicians wading in, offering different, contradictory visions for the future which often included the phrase "Retain access to the single market"... it's very unclear that there's a 52% mandate for the course we're now on.

The issue is, and I've tried to make this point a few times over the last months... is that you can't just generalise Leavers and Remainers. You replied to my post and started talking about a "narrative that leavers didn't..."

That's not my narrative. I'd never dream that I could assume en masse what 17 million+ people were motivated by, or what they knew or didn't know.

That's the problem when you have a consultation hyped up into something that it wasn't and serious intelligent people bandying around bullshit like "The will of the people" and "We elected these people to do it". 

That Leave were consistently behind leaving the single market is very true. It certainly wasn't given the same prominence as certain other standpoints. The open-ended nature (deliberately so in my view) of the referendum was a huge flaw. I truly doubt we will ever see a worse political exercise in this country in our lifetimes. It was gutless to not be binding, it was pisspoor in conception, and ultimately fucking useless in execution, as we've seen from the courtroom drama since the vote. 

Quite honestly, when British people talk of the deplorable state of US politics, they should start by looking closer to home. The referendum was a shameful exercise for both sides. Nobody comes out with any credit. 

Brize

Heartfeltdawn said:

That's the problem when you have a consultation hyped up into something that it wasn't and serious intelligent people bandying around bullshit like "The will of the people" and "We elected these people to do it". 

The notion that it was a 'consultation' is post hoc bullshit. It was a referendum and it was made clear to everyone and by everyone that the result would be accepted and honoured. At no point during the lengthy and tedious referendum campaign did anyone say that it was just a consultative exercise. Yes, we all (now) know that it said 'advisory' on the Bill, but that's nothing more than a technical point having to do with due process.

I agree that the referendum was a shameful exercise. In retrospect, it's clear that the establishment thought the outcome was a foregone conclusion, only for the electorate to vote the wrong way.

Evilmags

Sporky said:

Evilmags said:

the divide between white working class and metropolitan virtue signaler

Which are you?

Not part of their target market. 

Their is still something ludicrous about people who have not spent any real time in the areas destroyed by the EU and its economically inept currency management going on about how wonderful and economically virtuous it is when just about every disaster predicted by eurosceptic economists has happened. 

The South has become poorer and the North richer. 
Several governments have become bankrupt.
Extremism as represented by Le Penn, Wilders, Podemos, 5 Star, ADF ect has risen enormously
Economic power has concentrated in Germany, to the extent that one country determines the fate of the whole union

These things are actually all facts. They have all happened and yet people get all morally up themselves when trying to defend the indefensible.  

marantz1300

Oh it's not going to be half arsed.

It's going to be a full blown disaster.

Most of the Leavers I've met haven't a clue what they voted for and now wish they had voted remain.

They didn't think leave would win.

Idiots.