Gibson warning video over trademark infringements

crunchman

SteveF said:

Philtre said:

rpr said:

First Strike - https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/gibson-sues-dean-guitars-trademark-infringement/  ;

"Rather than only accusing Armadillo of infringing trademarks, the filing accuses it of Trademark Counterfeiting – in effect accusing Armadillo of trying to deceive or mislead the public into thinking that the guitars made by Dean and Luna are in fact Gibsons, or have some connection to Gibson."

Good luck with that.

Isn’t that basically what got rubbished on the PRS lawsuit appeal when the judge said someone would have to be an idiot to mistake them for a Gibson? 

Gibson won at a local Nashville Court against PRS, but PRS won on appeal at Federal level.

Even if Gibson win with the jury, expect it to get overturned on appeal.

VimFuego

perhaps that's there plan, win at a local level and bank on the loser not having the funds or stomach to appeal. 

Philtre

SteveF said:

Philtre said:

rpr said:

First Strike - https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/gibson-sues-dean-guitars-trademark-infringement/  ;

"Rather than only accusing Armadillo of infringing trademarks, the filing accuses it of Trademark Counterfeiting – in effect accusing Armadillo of trying to deceive or mislead the public into thinking that the guitars made by Dean and Luna are in fact Gibsons, or have some connection to Gibson."

Good luck with that.

Isn’t that basically what got rubbished on the PRS lawsuit appeal when the judge said someone would have to be an idiot to mistake them for a Gibson? 

Wait, you mean my PRS SE isn't really a Gibson Les Paul sold by PRS? Time for a refund, I think!

Kittyfrisk

Bridgehouse said:

I thought the video Agnesi did was the most stupid thing Gibson had done in years.. 


...seems I was premature in my assessment. Truly an act of gargantuan idiocy that will do nothing but damage their brand. Arrogance to the extreme 

It does seem that a really bad outbreak of macho shithead 'group think' has taken hold at Gibson.
Pity, I had hopes that after Henry J. left, things would improve, but I don't think it's going to happen.

OilCityPickups

They have gone for a targets within federal jurisdiction ... and ones with a significantly high profile to send shock waves through the industry. They've sought a jury trial that means emotional arguments can take president over bare facts. All a carefully thought out strategy. It wouldn't completely surprise me if they win.

Whether they are morally right to pursue companies they have more or less left alone to sail close to the wind for many years will probably not count for much.

The fact that the Les Paul hasn't been mentioned is interesting ... it may well mean that they are tacitly acknowledging that the boat sailed on that one.

Whatever happens it may end up forcing makers to be a bit more creative with body shapes etc than they have in the past ... which won't be a bad thing in my book.   

pmbomb

been thinking of a second guitar recently, much as I love my "authentic" Classic it's feeling less likely every day the next will be a Gibson.

darthed1981

pmbomb said:

been thinking of a second guitar recently, much as I love my "authentic" Classic it's feeling less likely every day the next will be a Gibson.

Yeah I like Gibsons less every day older I get, and that was BEFORE this.

Kittyfrisk

OilCityPickups said:

They have gone for a targets within federal jurisdiction ... and ones with a significantly high profile to send shock waves through the industry. They've sought a jury trial that means emotional arguments can take president over bare facts. All a carefully thought out strategy. It wouldn't completely surprise me if they win.

Whether they are morally right to pursue companies they have more or less left alone to sail close to the wind for many years will probably not count for much.

The fact that the Les Paul hasn't been mentioned is interesting ... it may well mean that they are tacitly acknowledging that the boat sailed on that one.

Whatever happens it may end up forcing makers to be a bit more creative with body shapes etc than they have in the past ... which won't be a bad thing in my book.   

'...emotional arguments can take president over bare facts'

That's exactly how Trump got in   

OilCityPickups

darthed1981 said:

pmbomb said:

been thinking of a second guitar recently, much as I love my "authentic" Classic it's feeling less likely every day the next will be a Gibson.

Yeah I like Gibsons less every day older I get, and that was BEFORE this.

I'd love to think that somehow this high handed tomfoolery would rebound on Gibson ... that people might be put off the brand till quality control and prices match ... but sadly I know that next time an R8 style feeding frenzy happens on here, righteous indignation will be shelved in favour of shiny new boys toys with the magic logo.

guitars4you

Wow - I didn't expect movement so quickly and secondly of all the companies I thought Gibson might take on first, I would not have had Dean on that list

OilCityPickups

guitars4you said:

Wow - I didn't expect movement so quickly and secondly of all the companies I thought Gibson might take on first, I would not have had Dean on that list

Well venturing outside of the US to take on Tokai, ESP etc would have been more complex ... nailing a few small makers who will roll over for a 'cease and desist' letter wouldn't make a splash ... they tried PRS ... who's left?

GoldenEraGuitars

Gibson’s biggest threat isn’t Dean... or any other named manufacturer. It’s China. 

But quite simply put they’ve walked into the party late and decided to swing their dick around like a complete fanny.

After listening to Agnesi, I’ve lost a lot of respect for him. It would be very very interesting to know who’s pulling his strings... 

crunchman

OilCityPickups said:

guitars4you said:

Wow - I didn't expect movement so quickly and secondly of all the companies I thought Gibson might take on first, I would not have had Dean on that list

Well venturing outside of the US to take on Tokai, ESP etc would have been more complex ... nailing a few small makers who will roll over for a 'cease and desist' letter wouldn't make a splash ... they tried PRS ... who's left?

The question is whether Dean have the financial resources to fight it.

I doubt they will go after stuff outside the US.  Just because they have US trademarks doesn't mean they apply outside of the US.

 That's not just for Gibson. Musicman don't have a trademark on the 4 + 2 headstock outside the US as far as I can see from Google.  Huber used to make them, but they stopped - but that's possibly because they want to sell guitars in the US.

Tenebrous

I didn't even know Dean were still around honestly. Besides Dimebag & Michael Angelo Batio, I can't name a single Dean artist, either present or former. I can't remember the last time I saw one of their guitars in a store, either.

brooom

I didn't seem to me like a shift in paradigm when they brought in the new CEO, it definitely didn't look like a smart decision when they hired Mark to be the "face" of Gibson and sure doesn't look like a smart move at all to go after other well established players in the industry. Focus on guitar building.

OilCityPickups

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Gibson’s biggest threat isn’t Dean... or any other named manufacturer. It’s China. 

But quite simply put they’ve walked into the party late and decided to swing their dick around like a complete fanny.

After listening to Agnesi, I’ve lost a lot of respect for him. It would be very very interesting to know who’s pulling his strings... 

Are China really a threat? Is anyone going to buy a £300 Chibson who was actually going to buy R8 ... unless as a second, cheap, 'have a punt' guitar? The Chibsons muddy the water in the second hand market ... but I doubt they've hurt Gibson's profit. As @Crunchman says ... because fighting intellectual property rights outside the US is risky and probably doomed to failure ... they have done what the corporate 'suits' think will work ... and in a way it probably will work.

As guitar buyers we will have less choice ... and if we want a Gibson we will have to pay the price.

guitars4you

OilCityPickups said:

guitars4you said:

Wow - I didn't expect movement so quickly and secondly of all the companies I thought Gibson might take on first, I would not have had Dean on that list

Well venturing outside of the US to take on Tokai, ESP etc would have been more complex ... nailing a few small makers who will roll over for a 'cease and desist' letter wouldn't make a splash ... they tried PRS ... who's left?

Collings and Heritage are more obvious regarding model shapes - But far smaller companies than Dean, so less potential 'damages' to be awarded - Or are damages fixed regarding the offence, regardless of the size of the company - What about going after Suhr for the Aura ?? - A larger company now

Ref overseas and I take your point over a more complex case - Can Gibson still work with 'enforcement' offices to have such imports impounded - Think 'officials' did something with this back in the 80s with Tokai, in the early days of the original 'Strat' replicas - It would not bring in any compensation to Gibson, but it would still be a 'statement' - Would only have any impact on the USA market, but it does represent around 50% of the total world market

I just don't see Dean as a 'guilty' party

I can understand Gibson wishing to protect the split diamond headstock inlay - Ditto the crest inlay - They are iconic as per the PRS bird inlays - But I have an issue on the body shape - But as a 'simple layman' I don't know what Gibson's full legal IPR are regarding shape and distinctive features  - A breach of the brand name and model name are more obvious to appreciate  - But as for the body shape and a 3 a-side headstock I'm not so sure

WiresDreamDisasters

What do Gibson even make with the 'Gibson' brand that is competitively priced?? The LP Juniors, okay sure.. but what else??

pmbomb

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Gibson’s biggest threat isn’t Dean... or any other named manufacturer. It’s China. 

But quite simply put they’ve walked into the party late and decided to swing their dick around like a complete fanny.

After listening to Agnesi, I’ve lost a lot of respect for him. It would be very very interesting to know who’s pulling his strings... 

right now it seems Gibson's biggest threat is Gibson.

I wouldn't blame Agnesi (without more information), perhaps the reason he looks uncomfortable in the video is that he is.

Tenebrous

WiresDreamDisasters said:

What do Gibson even make with the 'Gibson' brand that is competitively priced?? The LP Juniors, okay sure.. but what else??

SGs don't seem that much more expensive than the higher end Revstars, but I'd buy a Revstar before I bought an SG if I had to buy blind.