I'm trying the LCHF (Keto) diet

King85

tony99 said:

30 pints a week ??!!???

Yeah that might be too much, at roughly 6000 cals that's pretty ridiculous but everyone is different, i work with a guy who eats sweets and cakes all the time and he's not got much to him, if i did the same i'd notice it.

Blaendulais

Danny1969 said:

RaymondLin said:

I am no doctor but I suspect instances where this occurring are for when the calorie difference are in a small margin, say for average human make adult 2500 cal a day, and if you eat 2500 cal vs someone who also eat 2500 cal.  Except one person is stuffing their face just before bed with KFC and one spreads it out evenly, eating items such as whole grain, veg, non-processed food.  The junk food one will put one weight whereas the healthy eating one will maintain the weight.

But if the junk food guy drops to 1200 calories a day.  I would be shocked if he doesn't lose weight.  The metabolism difference cannot be enough to make up the sheer calorie deficit. 

For me it seems to be entirely based on when I eat, not what I eat. If I want to lose weight I know I can stuff myself silly up to 2pm and then as long as I stop eating then I will lose weight. If I go on a virtual fat free diet of mainly chicken and veg with salads and other good stuff spread over 3 meals a day I don't lose weight. It's odd and also fascinating because beer is supposed to be full of calories and make people put on weight but I drink well over 30 pints a week and it doesn't seem to add any weight at all ..... as in If I cut out the beer I don't lose weight, it doesn't seem to stick on me

Have you got worms!!!!

TimmyO

Emp_Fab said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Two weeks isn't enough to test out any lifestyle changes tbh.

I know.  I'm only giving it a try out for two weeks to see if there's anything I really can't tolerate with it.  If nothing crops up, I'll be on it for the foreseeable future.

Problem is, if you don't supplement sodium, magnesium and potassium there's a good chance you'll spend a chunk of that time in 'keto flu' and conclude it's not going to work for you. 

Those here who know me irl and to a lesser degree some of the Facebook folk will.know I dropped over 3 stone doing a version of keto. I initially did your standard keto/LCHF a few years before with decent results, went back to 'normal' and gradually regained but then a couple of.years about (maybe a bit less) decided to get back in it and came across a variation on it that's been even better for me - great weight loss result but also even better from energy levels point of view and general good health, skin, aches and pains and whatnot.

I won't be a bore about it so will just say it once and leave you to whichever route you are good with but I'd strongly vouch for a particular Facebook group called "Ketogenic Dieters" - it's pretty strict about keeping people on message to their version of it, which is in turn wherever possible backed by research and science , and the PDF in their pinned post sets it out really clearly. The biggest initial challenge becomes getting 150g (in my case) of protein in you in a day. You find all manner of odd ideas for breakfast to get there  haha 

Anyway, I recommend checking it out. 

TheMarlin

It’s funny. Many of the people who comment in this thread with their pearls of wisdom, and information on fad diets have likely never tried a Keto diet. 

It works. It’s not a diet, it’s an adoption of a completely different system for burning fuel to lose weight.  You don’t burn sugar, you burn fat. 

It takes some stamina to get into Ketosis, but once there, it’s easy to maintain. Your hunger levels naturally level without the sugar spikes, The benefits for me are not just the weight loss, but also the lack of inflammation caused by sugar.  My joint pain disappears, my arthritis is soothed, my mobility actually increases.  People in ketosis have been proven to have lower cholesterol once in ketosis compared to their results on a regular carb my diet. 

It works for me, and the benefits in other areas outweigh all other ‘concerns’.  I’ve lost a stone in the last month, I work hard and don’t have time for exercise,  other than a walk along the Chilterns of a weekend. 

TimmyO

Totally agree re inflammation. It's ace not having a sore hip lol 

RaymondLin

TheMarlin said:

It’s funny. Many of the people who comment in this thread with their pearls of wisdom, and information on fad diets have likely never tried a Keto diet. 

It works. It’s not a diet, it’s an adoption of a completely different system for burning fuel to lose weight.  You don’t burn sugar, you burn fat. 

It takes some stamina to get into Ketosis, but once there, it’s easy to maintain. Your hunger levels naturally level without the sugar spikes, The benefits for me are not just the weight loss, but also the lack of inflammation caused by sugar.  My joint pain disappears, my arthritis is soothed, my mobility actually increases.  People in ketosis have been proven to have lower cholesterol once in ketosis compared to their results on a regular carb my diet. 

It works for me, and the benefits in other areas outweigh all other ‘concerns’.  I’ve lost a stone in the last month, I work hard and don’t have time for exercise,  other than a walk along the Chilterns of a weekend. 

I have tried it, it works but i just don't like it.  I like my food.  I like my Pizza, Pasta and my chocolate.  Life is too short to cut out my favourite things.

I figure I don't have to limit to keto to actually lose weight or eat healthy, the key is moderation.  That's it.  

It is no wonder Keto works, because immediately you would pretty much half the content of your plate in most meals.  Your Steak and Chips is now replaced by Steak and Salad.   It is unlikely you are going to replace your chips with another piece of steak.  That's not what people do.   You stopped eating processed sugar and cereal (typically fully of sugar).   Buy lowering calories intake and junk food will have an immediate benefit in weight loss.  That is expected. 

You can diet this and diet that.  One diet is cut carbs, one diet is cut fat, one diet is cut this and that.  You have your slim fast diet, your cabbage soup diet, Akins, Keto and the new thing now is Blue Zones diet.  They all do the same thing, they make you watch what you eat.

So just watch what you eat, and portion control, little to no processed food.  Eat fresh, eat healthy, less sugar and salt.  It's common sense, we all know it, except people are weak and often go for the sugars, alcohol etc.

It's not a diet that people need to do, it is the eating habit, a life style,  and even their taste and palate. 

p.s. I bet if you eat 50lbs of bacon a day, you will still get fat, and probably diet of a heart attack before long.  

Moderation. 

Snap

right
Throw out the word "diet".
It's pretty simple this weight management lark. However, it's been over complicated intentionally to make money out of us. IMO, it's all largely commercialised bobbins.

Losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is a very straightforward thing to do: you just eat a healthy balanced diet. 
Don't eat too much of any one thing, aim to eat natural unprocessed fresh foods. don't stuff yourself at each meal, drink plenty of water.

If you eat a balanced diet, with a good amount of fibre, fat, protein and carbs, your body will take energy from all of them in the right proportions. You don't have to induce ketosis or any other fad process, you just have to do what your body has evolved to cope with.

It's not great shock that if you eat lots of processed carbs and fats, your body will convert them into stores as this stuff is like food cocaine - instant rushes to your system. IF you eat plenty of fresh carbs, fibre, fat and protein, your body works harder to get nutrients out of the foodstuffs.

Add in a reasonable amount of activity and you are on the way to getting back in shape.

Rapid weight loss shocks the body. Its shouldn't be a surprise that the weight eventually goes back on unless the shock continues.

When you stop eating, the body will eventually go into starvation mode - when you start eating again, you will convert more of your food into fat as the body is storing energy for the next bout of starvation. If you really want to burn fat, one of the things that needs considering is actually eating more fat - like kindling a fire, it primes the system to burn it off.

Lots of these fads work in the short term, but the best and easiest way to do it long term is just to eat a balanced diet and move around a bit. Most people just don't do this.

But then, the diet industry would have us believe otherwise, so we spend loads of cash on books, plans, supplements and all that BS.

RaymondLin

I hear girls say "I've been on a diet since i was 16", this woman is like 40.

That's not a diet, that is just her life....clearly she wants to eat more stuff, her problem then becomes similar to an alcoholic who if they have 1 drink, they have to have 10 drinks.  So they cut it out completely.

I can have 1 drink and stop, then not have another for 6 months.  My problem is i find myself eating too often, my portion sizes isn't even that big, it's i am not active enough.  I don't need to diet, I need to exercise.

EricTheWeary

Snap said:

right
Throw out the word "diet".
It's pretty simple this weight management lark. However, it's been over complicated intentionally to make money out of us. IMO, it's all largely commercialised bobbins.

Losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is a very straightforward thing to do: you just eat a healthy balanced diet. 
Don't eat too much of any one thing, aim to eat natural unprocessed fresh foods. don't stuff yourself at each meal, drink plenty of water.

If you eat a balanced diet, with a good amount of fibre, fat, protein and carbs, your body will take energy from all of them in the right proportions. You don't have to induce ketosis or any other fad process, you just have to do what your body has evolved to cope with.

It's not great shock that if you eat lots of processed carbs and fats, your body will convert them into stores as this stuff is like food cocaine - instant rushes to your system. IF you eat plenty of fresh carbs, fibre, fat and protein, your body works harder to get nutrients out of the foodstuffs.

Add in a reasonable amount of activity and you are on the way to getting back in shape.

Rapid weight loss shocks the body. Its shouldn't be a surprise that the weight eventually goes back on unless the shock continues.

When you stop eating, the body will eventually go into starvation mode - when you start eating again, you will convert more of your food into fat as the body is storing energy for the next bout of starvation. If you really want to burn fat, one of the things that needs considering is actually eating more fat - like kindling a fire, it primes the system to burn it off.

Lots of these fads work in the short term, but the best and easiest way to do it long term is just to eat a balanced diet and move around a bit. Most people just don't do this.

But then, the diet industry would have us believe otherwise, so we spend loads of cash on books, plans, supplements and all that BS.

The OP is 55 with a history of heart problems, it seems to me that any kind of crash diet for him is probably a bad thing. One that might be seen to allow him large amounts of saturated fats probably even worse. And trying it for two weeks when it's known to lead to piling the pounds back on once you stop seems to compound the folly. 
Keto diets obviously work well for some people but I'm pretty certain if Emp spoke to his GP they wouldn't advise it in his case. 

TheMarlin

RaymondLin said:

TheMarlin said:

It’s funny. Many of the people who comment in this thread with their pearls of wisdom, and information on fad diets have likely never tried a Keto diet. 

It works. It’s not a diet, it’s an adoption of a completely different system for burning fuel to lose weight.  You don’t burn sugar, you burn fat. 

It takes some stamina to get into Ketosis, but once there, it’s easy to maintain. Your hunger levels naturally level without the sugar spikes, The benefits for me are not just the weight loss, but also the lack of inflammation caused by sugar.  My joint pain disappears, my arthritis is soothed, my mobility actually increases.  People in ketosis have been proven to have lower cholesterol once in ketosis compared to their results on a regular carb my diet. 

It works for me, and the benefits in other areas outweigh all other ‘concerns’.  I’ve lost a stone in the last month, I work hard and don’t have time for exercise,  other than a walk along the Chilterns of a weekend. 

I have tried it, it works but i just don't like it.  I like my food.  I like my Pizza, Pasta and my chocolate.  Life is too short to cut out my favourite things.

I figure I don't have to limit to keto to actually lose weight or eat healthy, the key is moderation.  That's it.  

It is no wonder Keto works, because immediately you would pretty much half the content of your plate in most meals.  Your Steak and Chips is now replaced by Steak and Salad.   It is unlikely you are going to replace your chips with another piece of steak.  That's not what people do.   You stopped eating processed sugar and cereal (typically fully of sugar).   Buy lowering calories intake and junk food will have an immediate benefit in weight loss.  That is expected. 

You can diet this and diet that.  One diet is cut carbs, one diet is cut fat, one diet is cut this and that.  You have your slim fast diet, your cabbage soup diet, Akins, Keto and the new thing now is Blue Zones diet.  They all do the same thing, they make you watch what you eat.

So just watch what you eat, and portion control, little to no processed food.  Eat fresh, eat healthy, less sugar and salt.  It's common sense, we all know it, except people are weak and often go for the sugars, alcohol etc.

It's not a diet that people need to do, it is the eating habit, a life style,  and even their taste and palate. 

p.s. I bet if you eat 50lbs of bacon a day, you will still get fat, and probably diet of a heart attack before long.  

Moderation. 

I’ve always eaten salad with lunch and dinner, so no great shakes for me, and I’m a Pescatarian (no meat, occasional fish, largely vegetarian), not eaten meat for 36 years. 

RaymondLin

I think we can all agree that no matter what kind of diet you are on, there are these common thread.

1 - Eat less - You don't need to stuff your face full.  There is saying in Japanese that translates as 80% full/comfortable full. 
2 - Eat more vegetables.*
3 - Drink Less
4 - More active
5 - Moderation.

* in the west we eat our salads and leafy vegetables raw.  In the east they cook them, you will think it is mad to cook lettuce, but a bit of garlic then put in your lettuce and toss it around for 2 mins.  Sure a lot of water will come out but the fiber remains.  Same with many other kinds of leafy veg.  I can eat and half a lettuce in 1 meal easily when cooked.  

TheMarlin

EricTheWeary said:

Snap said:

right
Throw out the word "diet".
It's pretty simple this weight management lark. However, it's been over complicated intentionally to make money out of us. IMO, it's all largely commercialised bobbins.

Losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is a very straightforward thing to do: you just eat a healthy balanced diet. 
Don't eat too much of any one thing, aim to eat natural unprocessed fresh foods. don't stuff yourself at each meal, drink plenty of water.

If you eat a balanced diet, with a good amount of fibre, fat, protein and carbs, your body will take energy from all of them in the right proportions. You don't have to induce ketosis or any other fad process, you just have to do what your body has evolved to cope with.

It's not great shock that if you eat lots of processed carbs and fats, your body will convert them into stores as this stuff is like food cocaine - instant rushes to your system. IF you eat plenty of fresh carbs, fibre, fat and protein, your body works harder to get nutrients out of the foodstuffs.

Add in a reasonable amount of activity and you are on the way to getting back in shape.

Rapid weight loss shocks the body. Its shouldn't be a surprise that the weight eventually goes back on unless the shock continues.

When you stop eating, the body will eventually go into starvation mode - when you start eating again, you will convert more of your food into fat as the body is storing energy for the next bout of starvation. If you really want to burn fat, one of the things that needs considering is actually eating more fat - like kindling a fire, it primes the system to burn it off.

Lots of these fads work in the short term, but the best and easiest way to do it long term is just to eat a balanced diet and move around a bit. Most people just don't do this.

But then, the diet industry would have us believe otherwise, so we spend loads of cash on books, plans, supplements and all that BS.

The OP is 55 with a history of heart problems, it seems to me that any kind of crash diet for him is probably a bad thing. One that might be seen to allow him large amounts of saturated fats probably even worse. And trying it for two weeks when it's known to lead to piling the pounds back on once you stop seems to compound the folly. 
Keto diets obviously work well for some people but I'm pretty certain if Emp spoke to his GP they wouldn't advise it in his case. 

Perceived wisdom on fats and their roles in heart health is changing all the time. 

Saturated fats are demon they were once portrayed as. There is very little in the way of proof to confirm a link between saturated fats and heart health. 

Genetics has more to bear on the issue than the fats you consume. 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good

RaymondLin

TheMarlin said:

EricTheWeary said:

Snap said:

right
Throw out the word "diet".
It's pretty simple this weight management lark. However, it's been over complicated intentionally to make money out of us. IMO, it's all largely commercialised bobbins.

Losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is a very straightforward thing to do: you just eat a healthy balanced diet. 
Don't eat too much of any one thing, aim to eat natural unprocessed fresh foods. don't stuff yourself at each meal, drink plenty of water.

If you eat a balanced diet, with a good amount of fibre, fat, protein and carbs, your body will take energy from all of them in the right proportions. You don't have to induce ketosis or any other fad process, you just have to do what your body has evolved to cope with.

It's not great shock that if you eat lots of processed carbs and fats, your body will convert them into stores as this stuff is like food cocaine - instant rushes to your system. IF you eat plenty of fresh carbs, fibre, fat and protein, your body works harder to get nutrients out of the foodstuffs.

Add in a reasonable amount of activity and you are on the way to getting back in shape.

Rapid weight loss shocks the body. Its shouldn't be a surprise that the weight eventually goes back on unless the shock continues.

When you stop eating, the body will eventually go into starvation mode - when you start eating again, you will convert more of your food into fat as the body is storing energy for the next bout of starvation. If you really want to burn fat, one of the things that needs considering is actually eating more fat - like kindling a fire, it primes the system to burn it off.

Lots of these fads work in the short term, but the best and easiest way to do it long term is just to eat a balanced diet and move around a bit. Most people just don't do this.

But then, the diet industry would have us believe otherwise, so we spend loads of cash on books, plans, supplements and all that BS.

The OP is 55 with a history of heart problems, it seems to me that any kind of crash diet for him is probably a bad thing. One that might be seen to allow him large amounts of saturated fats probably even worse. And trying it for two weeks when it's known to lead to piling the pounds back on once you stop seems to compound the folly. 
Keto diets obviously work well for some people but I'm pretty certain if Emp spoke to his GP they wouldn't advise it in his case. 

Perceived wisdom on fats and their roles in heart health is changing all the time. 

Saturated fats are demon they were once portrayed as. There is very little in the way of proof to confirm a link between saturated fats and heart health. 

Genetics has more to bear on the issue than the fats you consume. 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good

All things being equal.   Without knowing what OP's genetics are, you can't rely on him having the fat resistence gene so the wise thing is ease up on the fats, eat moderately and not stuff his face in bacon.

TheMarlin

RaymondLin said:

TheMarlin said:

EricTheWeary said:

Snap said:

right
Throw out the word "diet".
It's pretty simple this weight management lark. However, it's been over complicated intentionally to make money out of us. IMO, it's all largely commercialised bobbins.

Losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is a very straightforward thing to do: you just eat a healthy balanced diet. 
Don't eat too much of any one thing, aim to eat natural unprocessed fresh foods. don't stuff yourself at each meal, drink plenty of water.

If you eat a balanced diet, with a good amount of fibre, fat, protein and carbs, your body will take energy from all of them in the right proportions. You don't have to induce ketosis or any other fad process, you just have to do what your body has evolved to cope with.

It's not great shock that if you eat lots of processed carbs and fats, your body will convert them into stores as this stuff is like food cocaine - instant rushes to your system. IF you eat plenty of fresh carbs, fibre, fat and protein, your body works harder to get nutrients out of the foodstuffs.

Add in a reasonable amount of activity and you are on the way to getting back in shape.

Rapid weight loss shocks the body. Its shouldn't be a surprise that the weight eventually goes back on unless the shock continues.

When you stop eating, the body will eventually go into starvation mode - when you start eating again, you will convert more of your food into fat as the body is storing energy for the next bout of starvation. If you really want to burn fat, one of the things that needs considering is actually eating more fat - like kindling a fire, it primes the system to burn it off.

Lots of these fads work in the short term, but the best and easiest way to do it long term is just to eat a balanced diet and move around a bit. Most people just don't do this.

But then, the diet industry would have us believe otherwise, so we spend loads of cash on books, plans, supplements and all that BS.

The OP is 55 with a history of heart problems, it seems to me that any kind of crash diet for him is probably a bad thing. One that might be seen to allow him large amounts of saturated fats probably even worse. And trying it for two weeks when it's known to lead to piling the pounds back on once you stop seems to compound the folly. 
Keto diets obviously work well for some people but I'm pretty certain if Emp spoke to his GP they wouldn't advise it in his case. 

Perceived wisdom on fats and their roles in heart health is changing all the time. 

Saturated fats are demon they were once portrayed as. There is very little in the way of proof to confirm a link between saturated fats and heart health. 

Genetics has more to bear on the issue than the fats you consume. 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good

All things being equal.   Without knowing what OP's genetics are, you can't rely on him having the fat resistence gene so the wise thing is ease up on the fats, eat moderately and not stuff his face in bacon.

I’m nut suggesting anything, and I’m not stating that OP have a sausage party.  I’m just stating that saturated fats were targeted for bad press with little basis in fact.  polyunsaturated fats are now the new demons in the media, something we were encouraged to stuff our faces with back in the 80’s and 90’s

RaymondLin

TheMarlin said:

RaymondLin said:

TheMarlin said:

Perceived wisdom on fats and their roles in heart health is changing all the time. 

Saturated fats are demon they were once portrayed as. There is very little in the way of proof to confirm a link between saturated fats and heart health. 

Genetics has more to bear on the issue than the fats you consume. 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good

All things being equal.   Without knowing what OP's genetics are, you can't rely on him having the fat resistence gene so the wise thing is ease up on the fats, eat moderately and not stuff his face in bacon.

I’m nut suggesting anything, and I’m not stating that OP have a sausage party.  I’m just stating that saturated fats were targeted for bad press with little basis in fact.  polyunsaturated fats are now the new demons in the media, something we were encouraged to stuff our faces with back in the 80’s and 90’s

Which goes back to my point from the beginning, eat in moderation.  All these diets are fads, what is consider correct today will be wrong tomorrow.  Ketos included.

The only constant is eat more vegetables, do more exercise and eat and drink in moderation.  

PVO_Dave

I tried Keto before, lost a stone really quickly (mainly water weight I'd imagine, as I was constantly needing a pee) but didn't continue it, found it hard to consume that amount of fat - I did enjoy bacon for breakfast every day though  

Weight crept back on, as it wasn't a lifestyle change.

I'm back to the no shortcuts method now, eating better, calorie counting - just to make sure I'm at a deficit) and exercising at the gym twice a week, when work allows. 

Snap

There is an important thing in respect of fats to keep in mind: if you don't have the full view of the research, and a scientific education, you need to be careful with taking anything you read as gospel.

As has been said, just eat a balanced fresh diet. The keto diet is not balanced and eventually it will make you ill, same goes for any diet too skewed to one food group, or omitting others.

All this anti carb stuff is a load of rubbish too. Carbs are essential to diet, alongside fat and protein.

Horsecrap peddled by representatives of companies that are there to make money out of fad diets.

Jalapeno

Snap said:

All this anti carb stuff is a load of rubbish too. Carbs are essential to diet, alongside fat and protein.

Yes and no, processed Carbs are fairly recent in evolutionary terms and our bodies are too good at taking the sugars from them. Our bodies are too efficient, a high(er) carb diet isn't good for people.

My Diabetes nurse-practitioner told me to eat no more than 25% of unprocessed carbs per meal (50% veg, 25% protein), and only eat carbs like wholewheat pasta, brown rice, skin-on spuds, wholemeal bread if at all possible. (Mrs J can't stand brown rice or wholewheat pasta, which ain't easy ) 

RaymondLin

Jalapeno said:

Snap said:

All this anti carb stuff is a load of rubbish too. Carbs are essential to diet, alongside fat and protein.

Yes and no, processed Carbs are fairly recent in evolutionary terms and our bodies are too good at taking the sugars from them. Our bodies are too efficient, a high(er) carb diet isn't good for people.

My Diabetes nurse-practitioner told me to eat no more than 25% of unprocessed carbs per meal (50% veg, 25% protein), and only eat carbs like wholewheat pasta, brown rice, skin-on spuds, wholemeal bread if at all possible. (Mrs J can't stand brown rice or wholewheat pasta, which ain't easy ) 

I am pretty sure white rice has been around for centuries...Mochi (made from white rice) dates back to 300BC-300AD.

A bowl of rice is fine, you don't see many fat Japanese.  What they don't eat much is bread or pasta.  Any rice is served normally in a bowl that fits in the palm of your hand.

Lewy

I think most of these diets can work, but not for the reasons they often quote i.e. a diet plan may be based on low carbs but in reality that's not why it works - it's because fat has a high satiety so you just end up not eating as many calories because you feel fuller. If feeling fuller means you can stick to eating fewer calories - bang, it will work. But it's calorie deficit x adherence that is causing the fat loss, not carbs versus fat etc etc. 

When I need to lose weight (I'm in that mode now after having another baby and living off convenience crap and comfort snacks for over a year) I skip breakfast. I don't tend to feel hungry in the morning and that's also my busiest time of day so I don't have time to think about food. It's just skipping a meal, but now that is repackaged as Intermittent Fasting, along with a load of science with how it's better for fat loss. It's not, - in practical, fat bloke who isn't an elite athlete needs to shift some flab terms -  it's just an easy (for me) to stick to way of eating fewer calories.

I think if there are no underlying health issues like diabetes (which does change things obviously) it really doesn't need to be more complicated than that - do whatever enables you to stick to eating fewer calories.