How to deal with a band member for the benefit of the band?

ICBM

Fuengi said:

How on earth is a bassist holding you all to ransom?. Literally anyone can play bass! 

Speaking as definitely the least competent member of my band, there is some truth in that...

Although playing bass *well* is not that easy. I'm still working on that bit.

slacker

Fuengi said:

How on earth is a bassist holding you all to ransom?. Literally anyone can play bass! 

bass is two strings easier. However I've noticed things in some bands. if there's no clear leader the person who found or recruited people think they are the leader. Same with the pa. The bassist in this thread is both an original member and insists on using his pa not a better one.

Leadership skills are not really required,

paulmapp this is where you are having issues you want to solve problems and make the band work. This display of leadership qualities is probably threatenening him. 

I joined a delusional band in 2013 after 6 months I bailed I found out they did a pub gig trainwrecked and split.

ICBM

slacker said:

paulmapp this is where you are having issues you want to solve problems and make the band work. This display of leadership qualities is probably threatenening him.

That's a very valid point.

John_A

Possibly the fact he's shit and you're not is threatening him too!


Really, you can do better than this lot and unless they're all your best mates I would do just that

vasselmeyer

Mate, put yourself out there as keyboard/guitar and a list of your gear and you'll be snapped up in a week by a function band. You will get paid way more than your £200 split between four at the mythical Dog & Duck. Life is too short do be pissing about with people you're playing with now.

Danny1969

 Is a list of gear actually important? I mean I have some better gear now which I’ve brought over the last year but from 2015 to 2018 when I was playing professionally I had literally the worst gear anyone would probably want to do a gig with ... keys and guitar wise ...  because when you’re playing professionally you really don’t spend any money on gear as that kind of defeats the point of earning the money professionally to begin with

Cols

If he’s agreed in principle to a dedicated female vocalist then press ahead with that and politely ignore the ‘let’s do pub gigs first’ ploy.  Once you have another vocalist installed it’ll be easier to ease him to one side to BV.

If he kicks, the worst case scenario is that you have to get another bass player and PA.  Consider the cost of rehearsal space and the time input of the whole band against that of the PA, and it’s not such a bad trade.

paulmapp8306

Danny1969 said:

 Is a list of gear actually important? I mean I have some better gear now which I’ve brought over the last year but from 2015 to 2018 when I was playing professionally I had literally the worst gear anyone would probably want to do a gig with ... keys and guitar wise ...  because when you’re playing professionally you really don’t spend any money on gear as that kind of defeats the point of earning the money professionally to begin with

Not at all no - well a little on keys as the sounds you can made is determined by the boards/modules you use to some extent - but generally no.  In fact there is often an inverse relationship between the kit one owns an how good a musician you are......

paulmapp8306

Cols said:

If he’s agreed in principle to a dedicated female vocalist then press ahead with that and politely ignore the ‘let’s do pub gigs first’ ploy.  Once you have another vocalist installed it’ll be easier to ease him to one side to BV.

If he kicks, the worst case scenario is that you have to get another bass player and PA.  Consider the cost of rehearsal space and the time input of the whole band against that of the PA, and it’s not such a bad trade.

And PA isnt that big a deal.  I have a 12 channel Studiomaster desk and a pair of Yamaha DSR112s we could use.  Granted keys would then go direct to desk (which they dont currently but Id like them to) and Id have to fall back on a crappy 100W monitoring those keys or get in ears - BUT its more then achievable on that front.

steven70

Serious suggestion likes...

Go onto joinmyband put up an advert for your services.
Within a week you will have several offers and you can try them out without any pressure or commitment.
If/when you find something that suits you better, make the move.
Nothing lost...

I really don't think you can change people and if there are difficulties at this stage, imagine what will happen further on down the road when the stakes are higher (is that a song?) 
(Aware it's always easier to give advice to others than sort out one's own mess...but anyways....hopefully constructive. )

PolarityMan

Those recordings are definitely better, feel like the singer gives more of a shit in those 3 too and is projecting a bit more. 

drwiddly

By all means persevere if you want to but keyboard players are hard to find. Keyboard players who also play guitar, sing bv's, have top notch equipment and decent transport are absolute gold dust. You can do better.

paulmapp8306

There is time put into this project, I love the material and It is coming together.  The guys themselves are great - its just Im not sure they are being realistic about the level we are at.  Its fine for pubs - and Id be happy in pubs, but Id also be happy in clubs and thats where they want to play.  I cant see us ever being that level vocally though.   

Its tearing me in all directions at times.  Still - there is an possible opportunity thats come along as a sound engineer for another project.. its paid as their regular engineer - again function stuff, and the commitment isnt much - 12-20 gigs a year and no needs to learn stuff myself or lug gear about or go to more than the odd rehearsal.  The band is providing all the gear as well.

2 of the other band members the current band also have other projects, and its not a lot of time so shouldn't affect this.  It will focus my mind on the aspects I want to perfect (as best I can)  giving me that outlet - meaning I can love this project for the material and the personnel rather than the actual level we play at.

paulmapp8306

Ha - I was going to post a promo thing we did - again from field recording but vocals were added later due to too much bleed. I feel its much better - though still a way short of club standard vocally.  The Bassist mix'd it and did a pretty good job and I was feeling a lot more positive.

But things will come to a head one way or another.... Hes found and read this thread. 

Now he may not come back here - he may do and read this post.  I will talk to him about it one to one if he want to - thats not a  problem for me.  He is upset - and from some of the comments (both from me and from you lot) Im not surprised.  You can be brutal (and brutally honest) at times.  The range of comments from enouraging but highlighting weakness, to outright ripping bits apart....I can take that - ignore the outliers and take a consensus to work on.

Dont know if its what Ive said on here, what you lot have said, or just that Ive said something outside the band environment.

BUT - Im not going to apologise for coming here and seeking advice, and indeed venting at times.  I have met quite a lot of you lot - played with many at jam sessions, AFX meets and the like.  Ive met and socialised with others outside of this arena - and even worked (in a non musical sense) with a couple.   Between you - you have a wealth of experience playing in bands at all levels and are always happy to give support, guidance, advice, and brutally honest opinions.  I value that - and see this place as a home from home filled with like minded (mostly - I can be a pain with some of my views as you all know) people.

I came here not knowing how to approach an individual being new to the project, and seeing potential musically.   I want it to be the best it can be.  I posted links so you could give me feedback - and it wouldnt have mattered if I was told we suited each other because we were all terrible and to enjoy playing together because we were unlikely to get a gig.  Neither would it have bothered me if I was told I was being a prat - and the standard was perfectly adequate/good.  Indeed anywhere between the two.  A reality check, a "re-calibration" of my thoughts if you will.  Was I being too critical, was I being unrealistic, was I right and if so how to deal with it etc.

Ultimately this will either result in me being kicked out, and the problem will be resolved (not to my ideal liking - but hey, at least I wont be frustrated any more )  - or he will leave, again solving the problem in a not ideal way - I think that would be a mistake as well (and in both cases should the band move forward new members would have to be found -  and upcoming commitments cancelled). Or - it might just bring it all out into the open - and comments made by you lot might hit home.  We may actually end up resolving some of the problems - or compromising either on solution or time frame.  That would be my wish.  As I posted, I like the guys...all of them as people.  I love the material (possibly WHY Im so desperate to take it where we want to go and to its best), but as it stands what will be will be.

fastonebaz

Awks

horse

Ouch - sounds like you've got a really healthy perspective on where things stand though, and like you say, what will be will be.

Cols

Yikes.

I sing (not well) in our band as well as playing guitar.  If I read some of the comments in this thread about the bassist’s vocals directed at me my self-confidence would be shot to shit, and it would be very difficult to sing in front of an audience again.  

Frankly, I think this situation is going to be very challenging to recover.  Hopefully the drummer doesn’t read the thread as well.

ICBM

paulmapp8306 said:

Ultimately this will either result in me being kicked out, and the problem will be resolved (not to my ideal liking - but hey, at least I wont be frustrated any more )  - or he will leave, again solving the problem in a not ideal way - I think that would be a mistake as well (and in both cases should the band move forward new members would have to be found -  and upcoming commitments cancelled). Or - it might just bring it all out into the open - and comments made by you lot might hit home.  We may actually end up resolving some of the problems - or compromising either on solution or time frame.  That would be my wish.  As I posted, I like the guys...all of them as people.  I love the material (possibly WHY Im so desperate to take it where we want to go and to its best), but as it stands what will be will be.

If the bassist is reading this, I'll repeat what I said in the first place - get a proper, *good* singer, preferably female. Being let down by a couple in the past is not a guide to future performance...

The bassist's and guitarist's singing are perfectly fine for backing vocals or even the occasional lead which suits them. I don't hear any major problems with anyone else's other abilities either.

A good singer will lift the band to another level effortlessly.

TheBigDipper

Good luck with an open and honest discussion with the welfare of the band under scrutiny rather than peoples egos - and I certainly don't mean you or yours! 

hotpickups

paulmapp8306 said:

A female singer isnt going to happen.  Guitarist diesnt want one of those either, they've been let down 3 times by girls.

Would also mean starting pretty much from scratch  and most songs we want to tackle are male led.  Not all but most.

No point in playing anywhere if your not enjoying the songs.

Strange it’s been the opposite for me. I’ve always been let down by ego’d male singers. I only use female singers now call me sexist if you like but it makes my job a lot easier not have to deal with those kinds of egos in a band.