Demonstrations in Peckham today -Black Lives Matter

Moloch

WiresDreamDisasters said:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1267914634461360135

Fuck ANTIFA.

Though I agree with her, that's a former press aide to Michelle Obama, going off on camera, lecturing people to vote. This glows in the dark so much that there are aliens five galaxies over saying 'That shit looks staged'.

PolarityMan

TTony said:

paulnb57 said:

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

Totally.

The #metoo  campaign (glad that's all over now) annoyed me too because it seemed to claim that sexual harassment was only ever M on F.

This ...

WiresDreamDisasters said:

... seems like a completely sensible set of  expectations, not something that should be initiated and  driven by a single racial group.

I think this needs to be done in combination with gun control. Widespread gun availability I'm sure does increase the genuine risk to police officers and perhaps more importantly for this conversation also allows the police to abuse the risk of escalation  to downplay disproportionate use of force.

I also cant help but think that in the US especially if the right couple of hundred people cared about this all of those measures could be implemented but none of those are going to be be people caught up in the riots.

It puts me in 2 minds about the #blacklivesmatter tbh, I see the argument that its exclusionary and also that it's largely virtue signalling but I think on balance any change has to come from the population as a whole not just member of an oppressed/minority group. 

Dunno if blacking out facebook and sharing shit on twitter will be enough to make a difference though. If everyone American who posted that hashtag didn't turn up to work for a week I bet that would though. 

Dominic

All lives matter BUT in the USA black lives matter a lot less in terms of  Police brutality and injustice.
Having once been arrested and badly roughed up by Police in New York over a ridiculously petty issue ( an argument with my Sister-in-Law over a lost passport in a hotel Lobby ) I can tell you that they are institutionally over-aggressive ,thick as a Whale Sandwich and fermented in a sauce of Macho culture strengthened with a self deluded importance that what they are doing is noble and heroic and therefore justified whatever the means.
They have self-endowed a sense of being beyond reproach and accountability which is a dangerous cocktail when mixed with a trigger happy finger and "divine" sense of righteousness .
 Thats just Cosmopolitan NY.
I would dread to think what it's like to be a 25 year old Black guy on a quiet back road in the South where Boss Hogg and his Good 'Ol boys run the Town fuelled by over-generous portions of Martha's Peanut Cream Pie.

WiresDreamDisasters

Dominic said:

All lives matter BUT in the USA black lives matter a lot less in terms of  Police brutality and injustice.
Having once been arrested and badly roughed up by Police in New York over a ridiculously petty issue ( an argument with my Sister-in-Law over a lost passport in a hotel Lobby ) I can tell you that they are institutionally over-aggressive ,thick as a Whale Sandwich and fermented in a sauce of Macho culture strengthened with a self deluded importance that what they are doing is noble and heroic and therefore justified whatever the means.
They have self-endowed a sense of being beyond reproach and accountability which is a dangerous cocktail when mixed with a trigger happy finger and "divine" sense of righteousness .
 Thats just Cosmopolitan NY.
I would dread to think what it's like to be a 25 year old Black guy on a quiet back road in the South where Boss Hogg and his Good 'Ol boys run the Town fuelled by over-generous portions of Martha's Peanut Cream Pie.

Dickhead cowboys innit basically.

When something like 60% of Americans don't even own a passport, what can we expect really?

EdBoogie

paulnb57 said:

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

Hey mate,

It's because your life isn't constantly in danger and you're not consistently being oppressed. You don't need to say "white lives matter" because society in the west already respects the life of white people. Here's a short article for you: "Why you should stop saying “all lives matter,” explained in 9 different ways"

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/11/12136140/black-all-lives-matter

Anyway, hope this is useful.

Cheers,

Ed

Karlos

Jota said:

paulnb57 said:

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

https://twitter.com/porralemos/status/1267518582650478603

^^^ Literally this... "all lives matter" is a ridiculous thing to say in light of what's happened. Of course all lives 'should' matter, duh, but they clearly don't.

People who say "all lives matter" are often those that demonstrate complete lack of willingness to understand the broader issue and generally proves that someone hasn't even bothered to look further than their own life experience and what they perceive as a threat to their own white lives.

Like the article above says, it's not "only Black Lives Matter". The fact that needs explaining is shocking.

That burning house clip is great, as glib as it is. What reasonable argument can be made to support saying "all lives matter" in the face of what's happening right now?  If that clip isn't enough to demonstrate the futility of saying all lives matter then... I dunno, I'm stumped.

capo4th

Emp_Fab said:

capo4th said:

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives. 

Maybe if these groups had the exact same opportunities and acceptance as their white-skinned brothers, they wouldn't end up feeling alienated, resentful and turning to crime.  These guys want the same things the white boys have but if you've grown up in a society where you are insidiously discriminated against, in all manner of ways that most white folk are oblivious to, then that's going to have a seriously detrimental effect on their outlook and ambitions and where they see opportunity - none more so than in their fomative years.

To see them as just more likely to commit crime because they are darker skinned, and "that's just what they're like" is ignorant racism at it's worst.  People are people and will respond and react to their environment, physical and societal, regardless of the colour of their skin.

What a load of drivel. That is not what I said at all. Look at some statistics and tell me who is committing the crimes in London. Life is about choices and some people make better choices than others. 

Why do these kids keep stabbing each other? 

Imagine if all these protests focused on stabbings, murder and kids not carrying weapons. 

Many many lives would be saved. 

tony99

capo4th said:

 Look at some statistics and tell me who is committing the crimes in London.

People in lower socio-economic cicumstances? People with limited opportunities? People on lower incomes? Disadvantaged people?

PolarityMan

capo4th said:

Emp_Fab said:

capo4th said:

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives. 

Maybe if these groups had the exact same opportunities and acceptance as their white-skinned brothers, they wouldn't end up feeling alienated, resentful and turning to crime.  These guys want the same things the white boys have but if you've grown up in a society where you are insidiously discriminated against, in all manner of ways that most white folk are oblivious to, then that's going to have a seriously detrimental effect on their outlook and ambitions and where they see opportunity - none more so than in their fomative years.

To see them as just more likely to commit crime because they are darker skinned, and "that's just what they're like" is ignorant racism at it's worst.  People are people and will respond and react to their environment, physical and societal, regardless of the colour of their skin.

What a load of drivel. That is not what I said at all. Look at some statistics and tell me who is committing the crimes in London. Life is about choices and some people make better choices than others. 

Why do these kids keep stabbing each other? 

Imagine if all these protests focused on stabbings, murder and kids not carrying weapons. 

Many many lives would be saved. 

Well maybe they stab each other because their only perceived way to lift themselves out of their current situation is through violence because they are institutionally denied an equal level of opportunity. Even when they have access to opportunity it is much more difficult to obtain than for a suburban white kid.

EdBoogie

Sorry to be all 'peace and love man' (imagine having to apologise for that), but - people love to use the 'life is about the choices you make, people need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps' argument, but they are too privileged to realise that some people don't even have boots.

capo4th

They are not stabbing suburban white kids though? 

capo4th

They are stabbing their own because someone looked at them the wrong way as they walked out of a kfc.

Everyday stabbings in London it needs to stop.

tony99

EdBoogie said:

some people don't even have boots.

and those that do don't realise when they're walking all over those that don't

Karlos

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

earwighoney

tony99 said:

capo4th said:

 Look at some statistics and tell me who is committing the crimes in London.

People in lower socio-economic cicumstances? People with limited opportunities? People on lower incomes? Disadvantaged people?

Statements like this really are far more offensive than one could imagine.

There are a lot of people in terrible social economic circumstances in London and 99.99% of them will never resort to crime or anything irrespective of however poor they might be.

I'm not bothered about who commits the knife in London/UK but I am really concerned by it. Not too long when the terrorist attack in Streatham happened (around 15 minutes from where I live) lots of people didn't even think much of it and walked straight past as knife crime is so fucking common in the area.

There's a huge wealth gap in London, and aside from a few people at the top/bottom the majority of people have to work pretty long hours in whatever your job might be (be it the Uber driver or the IT worker). There are a lot of drugs in the city as well (cocaine in particular) and cocaine in particular be it the runners or those higher up the chain can make a lot of money for not much graft, but a lot of risk. Aside from the bill, I'd say the biggest risk are other dealers and it doesn't take a genius to work out a huge amount of knife crime are from turf wars and so on.

I'd say some of those involved in knife crime were absolute cunts from the very outset, but others made a bad decision to begin with and carried on taking turns which lead them further and further astray. However, by calling their socio economic positions into relevance it's denigrating the majority who would never place themselves in such a position. I'd say education/upbringing is something which is more important, not just the education they receive in school but at home, community and the society. The issue of education is a really tricky one as some BAME populations place more of an emphasis on it than others (be it in the classroom or outside) and a blanket appreciation of all BAME populations is one I find does more harm than good.

Of course there is racism in London be it institutional or verbal/physical abuse, I've been testament to it myself over the years be in the 80's or post 9/11 (a watershed moment for a brown skinned male like myself) and the problem in the UK is different in origin to the one in the USA and I can understand why many many would feel solidarity/protest after seeing the video of George Floyd's demise.

There are a lot of great things about the social make up of London, it's a city where there is a lot of multiculturalism, economic stability/social mobility can occur for some of members BAME populations but at the same time there are others who weren't able to find themselves in fortuotous positions but from my perspective I'd say factors like education/upbringing are important to the outcome than race for things like knife crime and so on.

fields5069

Do we really have a thread where some people are arguing against positive discrimination?

We really have gone back to the 80s. Cool.

octatonic

Karlos said:

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

UnclePsychosis

Karlos said:

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

You must be new here. 

WiresDreamDisasters

I don't think that underprivileged kids (where I hark from) from council estates don't have options or choices. I think they just don't see them and a blinkered family life and culture blights their entire lives. It's very difficult to get out of those situations once you hit a certain age, and things become normalized.

Ask the kids on the streets when violence intensified btw. They'll tell you.

Paul_C

Bloke spits at black lady in tube station who later dies of coronavirus (the two things may not be connected but he claimed to have it at the time) no action taken.

Bloke spits at woman PC (no mention of her ethnicity) and gets 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52894473