Demonstrations in Peckham today -Black Lives Matter

breakstuff

octatonic said:

Karlos said:

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

I actually felt myself welling up watching that. Seeing those guys literally get left behind, while the others stepped forward with big smiles on their faces was pretty hard to watch. A simple demonstration, but one that gets its point across very succinctly. 

Thanks for posting @octatonic ;

EdBoogie

octatonic said:

Great video. The hardest part, I find, is getting the people that need to see videos/information like this, to actually watch them. 

Karlos

octatonic said:

Karlos said:

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

Haven't seen that clip in a while, it's absolutely spot on. That it needs explaining like that is indicative of the blinkered views some people have. I mean, it literally needs spelling out to people with diagrams and videos.

Many people genuinely believe that equality begins and ends with equality of opportunity which is mostly a bullshit idea - we're all free to eat at the Ritz - but if you have no money or they won't let you in because you don't fit then that freedom is worthless and just lip service from those in a position to espouse it.

tony99

earwighoney said:

tony99 said:

capo4th said:

 Look at some statistics and tell me who is committing the crimes in London.

People in lower socio-economic cicumstances? People with limited opportunities? People on lower incomes? Disadvantaged people?

Statements like this really are far more offensive than one could imagine.

There are a lot of people in terrible social economic circumstances in London and 99.99% of them will never resort to crime or anything irrespective of however poor they might be.

Statements like that may be offensive if one construes them incorrectly as you just have.

It is not to say all people of lower economic status will be involved in knife crime, but people involved in knife crime will more than likely come from disadvantaged situations.

Paul_C

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/remarkable-caller-racism-new-light/ 

octatonic

breakstuff said:

octatonic said:

Karlos said:

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

I actually felt myself welling up watching that. Seeing those guys literally get left behind, while the others stepped forward with big smiles on their faces was pretty hard to watch. A simple demonstration, but one that gets its point across very succinctly. 

Thanks for posting @octatonic ;

Yes, it makes the point very well.

I guess this is what I've been trying to communicate for the last few days- the need for compassion.

capo4th

Paul_C said:

Bloke spits at black lady in tube station who later dies of coronavirus (the two things may not be connected but he claimed to have it at the time) no action taken.

Bloke spits at woman PC (no mention of her ethnicity) and gets 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52894473

A good sentence and also sends a message that people need to respect the police. 

You would need to know the background, available evidence and previous of the two offenders.

Spitting is the lowest insult. 

Maybe some stiffer sentences would make a lot of criminals think twice about their actions. 

At the moment they have no fear of the police or the consequences of their actions. 

They expect a slap on the wrist and carry on regardless.

Emp_Fab

Emp_Fab said:

capo4th said:

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives. 

Maybe if these groups had the exact same opportunities and acceptance as their white-skinned brothers, they wouldn't end up feeling alienated, resentful and turning to crime.  These guys want the same things the white boys have but if you've grown up in a society where you are insidiously discriminated against, in all manner of ways that most white folk are oblivious to, then that's going to have a seriously detrimental effect on their outlook and ambitions and where they see opportunity - none more so than in their fomative years.

To see them as just more likely to commit crime because they are darker skinned, and "that's just what they're like" is ignorant racism at it's worst.  People are people and will respond and react to their environment, physical and societal, regardless of the colour of their skin.

I'm rather disturbed how my post above got a single Wis, yet three LOLs.

I know it's a tiny sample size, but should I take from this that only 25% of the forum sees it as I do and the overwhelming majority appear to believe these black and asian kids are just feral lowlifes destined for a life of crime ?

I really hope that's not the case, because that's not a forum I want any part of.

TTony

Emp_Fab said:

I'm rather disturbed how my post above got a single Wis, yet three LOLs.

You really should know better than to count frets.  But having counted them (and it looks like you need to count again), you really shouldn't compound the error by deducing your own meaning from the Wiz/LOL balance ....

I did reply to your post (as did others), but I'm guessing your fingers are still in your ears, your eyes are tightly closed and you're singing "la-la-la, can't see you, can't hear you", so  let's  not *discuss*, let's just count frets.

earwighoney

tony99 said:

Statements like that may be offensive if one construes them incorrectly as you just have.

It is not to say all people of lower economic status will be involved in knife crime, but people involved in knife crime will more than likely come from disadvantaged situations.

I can see your perspective and of course they are some of the factors at stake but my reply was to to try to highlight it's not the only factor as some seem to suggest, and it's that focus alone which I find a little troubling.

Apologies if it seemed if I had used your statement as the sole point to form my counter perspective which was to see that with socio economic factors there are many other factors at stake which seem to have allowed knife crime to have become so prolific in London.

tony99

earwighoney said:

tony99 said:

Statements like that may be offensive if one construes them incorrectly as you just have.

It is not to say all people of lower economic status will be involved in knife crime, but people involved in knife crime will more than likely come from disadvantaged situations.

I can see your perspective and of course they are some of the factors at stake but my reply was to to try to highlight it's not the only factor as some seem to suggest, and it's that focus alone which I find a little troubling.

Apologies if it seemed if I had used your statement as the sole point to form my counter perspective which was to see that with socio economic factors there are many other factors at stake which seem to have allowed knife crime to have become so prolific in London.

aye well, fair do's

DefaultM

Emp_Fab said:

Emp_Fab said:

capo4th said:

I live in London in hugely diverse area. The crime is predominantly committed by black and Asian males. That’s why the police focus their attention on these groups. These stop and search tactics prevent crime as they find more knives, guns and drugs.

Maybe these groups should make better life choices and they would not need to all carry knives. 

Maybe if these groups had the exact same opportunities and acceptance as their white-skinned brothers, they wouldn't end up feeling alienated, resentful and turning to crime.  These guys want the same things the white boys have but if you've grown up in a society where you are insidiously discriminated against, in all manner of ways that most white folk are oblivious to, then that's going to have a seriously detrimental effect on their outlook and ambitions and where they see opportunity - none more so than in their fomative years.

To see them as just more likely to commit crime because they are darker skinned, and "that's just what they're like" is ignorant racism at it's worst.  People are people and will respond and react to their environment, physical and societal, regardless of the colour of their skin.

I'm rather disturbed how my post above got a single Wis, yet three LOLs.

I know it's a tiny sample size, but should I take from this that only 25% of the forum sees it as I do and the overwhelming majority appear to believe these black and asian kids are just feral lowlifes destined for a life of crime ?

I really hope that's not the case, because that's not a forum I want any part of.

You're right it is a small sample size, and have you taken in to account that a large percentage of the forum has you on ignore?

Paul_C

paulnb57 said:

I don’t get the “Black Lives Matter” thing...don’t ALL lives matter?

The classic "I'm either a fucking idiot who has missed the point, or . . . no, that's it"

Paul_C

capo4th said:

Paul_C said:

Bloke spits at black lady in tube station who later dies of coronavirus (the two things may not be connected but he claimed to have it at the time) no action taken.

Bloke spits at woman PC (no mention of her ethnicity) and gets 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52894473

A good sentence and also sends a message that people need to respect the police. 

You would need to know the background, available evidence and previous of the two offenders.

Spitting is the lowest insult. 

Maybe some stiffer sentences would make a lot of criminals think twice about their actions. 

At the moment they have no fear of the police or the consequences of their actions. 

They expect a slap on the wrist and carry on regardless.

You're either deliberately ignoring my point, a [******], or both.

Admin edit - as it says in the Nixon tape transcriptions “expletive deleted”

EdBoogie

I'm going with option 'C', Paul

DB1

breakstuff said:

octatonic said:

Karlos said:

capo4th said: Life is about choices 

You've just summed it up dude.

How many good choices do you think these folks are getting early in life?

C'mon man, you can't be that blinkered, can you?

I actually felt myself welling up watching that. Seeing those guys literally get left behind, while the others stepped forward with big smiles on their faces was pretty hard to watch. A simple demonstration, but one that gets its point across very succinctly. 

Thanks for posting @octatonic ;

Powerful stuff. I watched that and I don't think that I could have taken a step forward either, because it pretty much all applied to me as well. Then I realised that I had a couple of things going for me when I was younger - I was relatively articulate (what happened?) but also I'm white and, going for jobs at the start of my working life in the late 1970's, that was a huge advantage. 

TTony

Paul_C said:

Bloke spits at black lady in tube station who later dies of coronavirus (the two things may not be connected but he claimed to have it at the time) no action taken.

Bloke spits at woman PC (no mention of her ethnicity) and gets 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52894473

IIRC, from when that (tube station) incident was originally reported some weeks ago, the lack of action was due to the time elapsed between it happening and being reported by the person concerned.

You can try to make it an example of racism and unequal treatment, but you’ll probably find more justifiable cases.

Paul_C

TTony said:

Paul_C said:

Bloke spits at black lady in tube station who later dies of coronavirus (the two things may not be connected but he claimed to have it at the time) no action taken.

Bloke spits at woman PC (no mention of her ethnicity) and gets 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52894473

IIRC, from when that (tube station) incident was originally reported some weeks ago, the lack of action was due to the time elapsed between it happening and being reported by the person concerned.

You can try to make it an example of racism and unequal treatment, but you’ll probably find more justifiable cases.

Regardless of what I do, twitter is full of black people who consider it to be yet another example of perceived inequality.

I qualified both stories as it may well be that the incident didn't cause her death, and it's also possible that the PC in the second story is also from a BAME background, nevertheless when you're surrounded by stories day after day it's hard not to empathise with anyone who sees it that way.

TTony

Yup, no-one should ever let fact get in the way of a good bit of Twitter outrage or Facebookery.



Unfortunately, using *bad* examples (ie are easily shown to be inaccurate) undermines the credibility of the good and valid examples.

Paul_C

TTony said:

Yup, no-one should ever let fact get in the way of a good bit of Twitter outrage or Facebookery.



Unfortunately, using *bad* examples (ie are easily shown to be inaccurate) undermines the credibility of the good and valid examples.

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that it if you are a black person living in the UK it's no surprise if you see two stories like that and see inequality, because you see inequality day after day after day after day.

You can persist with your view of it as a bad example if you like (and I'm sure you will) but it's not the point, and if you refuse to see or accept the point, then you're part of the problem that people face every single day.