The Football Thread.

mikeyrob73

guitars4you said:

Some reports appear to suggest 777 have called in the liquidation team - Or are about to

Aye for 777 NOT for Everton 
bit see my previous post I wouldn’t be surprised to see Everton call the administrators in very soon, the sums owed are staggering and the interest alone is crippling 
Moshiri has really made a mess of everything he touched at that club 

Rocker

mikeyrob73 said:

i have a sneaking suspicion that should Everton win tomorrow and be over 10 points clear of relegation Administration may be Looming 



Please explain 

RaymondLin

mikeyrob73 said:

guitars4you said:

Some reports appear to suggest 777 have called in the liquidation team - Or are about to

Aye for 777 NOT for Everton 
bit see my previous post I wouldn’t be surprised to see Everton call the administrators in very soon, the sums owed are staggering and the interest alone is crippling 
Moshiri has really made a mess of everything he touched at that club 

Isn’t administration an automatic 9pts deduction?

TTony

^^ which is why they'd do it this season!

RaymondLin

TTony said:

^^ which is why they'd do it this season!

I hadn’t realised they are 14pts above Luton. My mind still think it’s fewer than that.

mikeyrob73

RaymondLin said:

mikeyrob73 said:

guitars4you said:

Some reports appear to suggest 777 have called in the liquidation team - Or are about to

Aye for 777 NOT for Everton 
bit see my previous post I wouldn’t be surprised to see Everton call the administrators in very soon, the sums owed are staggering and the interest alone is crippling 
Moshiri has really made a mess of everything he touched at that club 

Isn’t administration an automatic 9pts deduction?

It IS an auto 9 points deduction and if administration happens before the final game of the season then the 9 points are applied this season, if after the final game of the season the points deduction moves to the following season 

guitars4you

mikeyrob73 said:

RaymondLin said:

mikeyrob73 said:

guitars4you said:

Some reports appear to suggest 777 have called in the liquidation team - Or are about to

Aye for 777 NOT for Everton 
bit see my previous post I wouldn’t be surprised to see Everton call the administrators in very soon, the sums owed are staggering and the interest alone is crippling 
Moshiri has really made a mess of everything he touched at that club 

Isn’t administration an automatic 9pts deduction?

It IS an auto 9 points deduction and if administration happens before the final game of the season then the 9 points are applied this season, if after the final game of the season the points deduction moves to the following season 

Will be interesting to see if the PL accept that and Everton get away with it- It is then effectively a ‘freebie’ regarding any ‘on pitch football related fine’ - Hence no football related punishment 

guitars4you

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/12/everton-paid-30m-interest-lender-rights-media-funding-links-with-tax-exile-documents-suggest

Some very dodgy dealings going on here behind the scenes as far as Everton are concerned - Loans from an investor with zero employees 

guitars4you

A must read article from the Guardian regarding the financial mess at Everton - https://amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/10/everton-administration-777-partners-takeover-football

as @mikeyrob73 implies watch this space this week for a potential administrators press release 

mikeyrob73

guitars4you said:

mikeyrob73 said:

RaymondLin said:

mikeyrob73 said:

guitars4you said:

Some reports appear to suggest 777 have called in the liquidation team - Or are about to

Aye for 777 NOT for Everton 
bit see my previous post I wouldn’t be surprised to see Everton call the administrators in very soon, the sums owed are staggering and the interest alone is crippling 
Moshiri has really made a mess of everything he touched at that club 

Isn’t administration an automatic 9pts deduction?

It IS an auto 9 points deduction and if administration happens before the final game of the season then the 9 points are applied this season, if after the final game of the season the points deduction moves to the following season 

Will be interesting to see if the PL accept that and Everton get away with it- It is then effectively a ‘freebie’ regarding any ‘on pitch football related fine’ - Hence no football related punishment 

The rules were changed a few years ago due to Leeds United going in administration during a game when they knew they were relegated. The rules are set 
If before last game then it’s this season 
of after final whistle of final
game it’s next season 
It’s certainly not a “ freebie” 

guitars4you

mikeyrob73 said:

It IS an auto 9 points deduction and if administration happens before the final game of the season then the 9 points are applied this season, if after the final game of the season the points deduction moves to the following season 

Will be interesting to see if the PL accept that and Everton get away with it- It is then effectively a ‘freebie’ regarding any ‘on pitch football related fine’ - Hence no football related punishment 

The rules were changed a few years ago due to Leeds United going in administration during a game when they knew they were relegated. The rules are set 
If before last game then it’s this season 
of after final whistle of final
game it’s next season 
It’s certainly not a “ freebie” 

Leeds went into admin in the EFL and their rules are often different to the PL - Think 10 points for admin in the EFL - Both EFL and PL come under the banner of the FA for certain football related activities, but many rules for EFL and PL are different - Hence PL couldn't touch Leicester in the EFL for FFP/PSR losses, but wait a few weeks time to see what happens

But as you say above rules were changed before and can change again, if desired by the authorities

I suspect, that the reason Everton have pulled the plug on the latest points deduction appeal is in order to prepare for admin very soon - If they continued with the appeal and the points deduction was actually increased, not decreased as they hoped for, it could be an issue - It is now clear that interest charges , of around 30 million, payable to RMF (and that sounds dodgy when you read more - see the link I posted above)) has not been included within the last set of FFP/FSR accounts - As such losses would have been higher, hence a potential larger fine - So time to box clever by the board

However let's get away from football as such issues are not about football - Forget about all the tribal hatred that goes on with your team and my team etc etc - These clubs are now owned by unscrupulous business men , who don't have the capital they claim - Hence big borrowings, hence debt, hence losses - They are no different to the likes of Philip Green who walks away scot from a collapsed empire - Most football fans do not have a clue as to the workings of FFP/PSR - I bet most could not tell you what amortisation is, yet it is at the heart of all the FFP/PSR accounts that the clubs submit - It was at the heart of the fiddled accounts by Mel Morris when he ran Derby into a mess recently 

Leeds United (and we can change that name to any club that went into admin) did not go into admin  - Not the heart and soul of the club that the fans support anyway - It was a business called Leeds United and owned by another unscrupulous owner called Ken Bates - He in fact managed to buy it back from the liquidators  on another 'con' - I can't recall all the exact details at the time, but I believe there was a better offer to the receivers, from other business men, but the receivers effectively had to accept Bates offer - Why ? - Because  he owned secured assets within the 'business' and said that if you sell to another prospective buyer, my assets will become liable for payment in full - Figures are different now to back then - But it was something like 20 million - But Bates said sell it back to me and I'll right it off - So we got Bates back - But as then with Leeds in the past, or maybe Everton soon, the serialised nature of the press/media is that it is Everton that have gone under - All the rich history, loyal fan base, the hearty and soul of a. city etc - It is not about Farad Moshiri - Few outside Everton know who he is - Every one connected with football knows about Everton - Some will gloat about it - But be careful when you do as your team may well be next - The bigger story is that it is Everton that goes under, not Moshiri 

I bet many can't name owners of other clubs as they are often shrouded in other detail - Most will connect Spurs with Levy but no little about ENIC and Joe Lewis - I suppose Roman and the Glazer family are more well know, for one reason or another, but - Without googling it how many can say who owns Arsenal 

Yes there are football related reasons as to the mess - 7million compensation to Frank doesn't help coupled with 'freedom' to spend spend spend - But even in a way it is part desperation by the board to raise their game, to create on field success, to bring in more funding, prize money, sponsorship - So football becomes the issue - But it starts of with debt and borrowings and of course greed/unscrupulous board room/owners 

I personally think we have a big issue with our sport and should look at parts of the German model - Hard now to get away from the 'sugar daddies' like City and Newcastle - But we should have parts of the clubs owned by the fans - Hence the German model - Both a  seat on the board and a financial stake in the club, by a 'body of supporters' - More to observed and report accordingly - So the mess that Everton have morphed into, and Derby only recently, is not a regular appearance - This unscrupulous business men just sneak up on us - Load us with corporate debt and sod off unscathed - We still buy it as football fans but it is corporate greed fucked up by any other tag 

I wish you all the best and once again it is you the fans that suffer - I seriously hope the situation is quickly resolved 

TTony

guitars4you said:

I bet many can't name owners of other clubs as they are often shrouded in other detail - Most will connect Spurs with Levy but no little about ENIC and Joe Lewis

Levy actually owns ~30% of ENIC (and thus Spurs).


Agree with what you say about business ownership of clubs and that it's "the business" that goes bust rather than the club, but when the business owns critical assets associated with the club (such as the ground), the business going bust can lead to those assets (the ground) being sold off and/or redeveloped for other purposes, and other business assets (ie players) getting sold off to raise funds. 

The restrictions then placed on a club that is affected by administration also - generally - means that it can spend little to nothing on transfers for a season or three.

The true fans will remain (the glory hunters will just adopt another team), but the club can be fatally wounded by those effects and suffer for a good few seasons, as I'm sure you're painfully aware!


Also agree that some sort of fan or community involvement in the ownership would be beneficial for stability and transparency, but I fear the English game is too corrupted by big money for that to be a possibility now.  Maybe in the lower-down leagues, but even there, the lure of the PL can bring big money into "clubs with potential".

guitars4you

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

I bet many can't name owners of other clubs as they are often shrouded in other detail - Most will connect Spurs with Levy but no little about ENIC and Joe Lewis

Levy actually owns ~30% of ENIC (and thus Spurs).


Agree with what you say about business ownership of clubs and that it's "the business" that goes bust rather than the club, but when the business owns critical assets associated with the club (such as the ground), the business going bust can lead to those assets (the ground) being sold off and/or redeveloped for other purposes, and other business assets (ie players) getting sold off to raise funds. 

The restrictions then placed on a club that is affected by administration also - generally - means that it can spend little to nothing on transfers for a season or three.

The true fans will remain (the glory hunters will just adopt another team), but the club can be fatally wounded by those effects and suffer for a good few seasons, as I'm sure you're painfully aware!


Also agree that some sort of fan or community involvement in the ownership would be beneficial for stability and transparency, but I fear the English game is too corrupted by big money for that to be a possibility now.  Maybe in the lower-down leagues, but even there, the lure of the PL can bring big money into "clubs with potential".

Didn't know Levy part owns ENIC - Nothing wrong with that and it was a dig - But it was just to point out that most of us know of Levy, due to his day to day activities at Spurs - But few know of ENIC and Joe - You can apply that to most clubs

Leeds were recently purchased by the San Francisco 49'ers - One of the biggest sport brands in the world - Yet they bring in a couple of golfers, a well known  Aussie actor(he is a Leeds fan) and now a Hollywood star - A basket ball player and an olympic swimmer

Government could force clubs into a 'fans investment' within the club, via an official supporter's club, with at least a listening voice on the board - Say 5% initially rising to 10% over say 5 years 

guitars4you

Forgot to add above about admin - What we forgot and generally don't see is the local impact on much smaller businesses if they go into admin - The printers, the food suppliers, staff on the day to day activities be it cleaner, tea lady - Many small business will get little if the club goes into admin - Hence the real impact from big business

mikeyrob73

Some great points and well made @guitars4you ;
on Everton , Moshiri is I suspect , and have always suspected , is not as rich as he ever claimed, and was merely a frontman for Usmanov , and once the Russians were hit with all the sanctions , Everton were always going to get screwed.

guitars4you

Nervous - plus have such a poor play off record 

I’ve been to 3 and never won - think we’ve lost all 5 

thecolourbox

I think you'll beat Norwich especially over two legs, you've still got enough good players and winners in your squad. The final is the real lottery I think, so you just have to get there and hope for the best

guitars4you

thecolourbox said:

I think you'll beat Norwich especially over two legs, you've still got enough good players and winners in your squad. The final is the real lottery I think, so you just have to get there and hope for the best

Good luck for you guys shortly 
will watch some of it but need to give the dog a good stroll 

Rocker

A question is: can we be sure that The Guardian is a trustworthy and reliable source of information?  There is very little about the state of things at Everton FC in other publications. 

thecolourbox

guitars4you said:

thecolourbox said:

I think you'll beat Norwich especially over two legs, you've still got enough good players and winners in your squad. The final is the real lottery I think, so you just have to get there and hope for the best

Good luck for you guys shortly 
will watch some of it but need to give the dog a good stroll 

Cheers, may the best side win! I think if by some miracle we get through, I'd prefer to play Leeds as we tend to play better against the better teams, so good luck to you guys as well haha