So, 4 days on, were Remain scaremongering or not?

Chalky

RaymondLin;1130120" said:

Here are my 2 cents

1. We need to trade with the EU, even if we leave, we can't not trade, because that would be econmical suicide.
2. In order to trade with the EU, we need to get on board with lots of regulations and also pay a fee. Think of it like a private member's club. You need to abide by the club's rules and pay an entry fee or you can stay outside in the rain.
3. The rule on free movement of workers is a cornerstone of the EU. If you want to trade, you have to sign up with that. It is almost like if you want to come inside, you have to take off your shoes.

For example, Norway is not in the EU but can trade, in return they pay a fee, and actually works out MORE than what we pay per capita. Makes sense as they are not an offical member, so pay more than an official member. They also have to sign up to Free movement of workers. Except Norway can afford this increase because they have a lot more oil reserve than us.

We have a pretty unique and sweet deal before, we even have our own currency so during the 2008/2009 recession we wasn't hit as hard as others. We also had a seat on the table help shape EU laws.

Norway on the other hand do not, they have to abide by any law that EU passes and implement them, no questions asks.

So right now, the best we can hope for is going on the similar deal that Norway has.

1. Sign up to 75% of EU regulation
2. Have free movement of workers
3. Pay more memebers' fee than we did before
4. No influence of EU legislations. Have to implement them anyway

Basically we are pretty much begging to get back to a worse deal than we had last week, with billions knocked out of or stock market and companies value, pensions. Our country's credit rating has taken a massive knock with increase cost of borrowing rising, the political landscape is going to crap, Boris has gone into hiding since and the world thinks we are insane !!! (when everyone else wants to join the EU, we want to leave it). Honestly, what we are trying to do is get back to the position in terms of trade that we were as of last week….and sign up to 75% of the legislation we were on and we don't really have that £350 million (not that we had that much anyway) to spend on anything because not only that has been wiped off due to the stock market and the credit rating drop. We have to pay MORE than before per capita now to trade.

Its like we've shot ourselves in the left foot, and then take an axe to the right kneecap.

But…we can say we have our soverienty back…..woot hoo !!!! I wonder if my bank manager take that as a mortgage payment if I lose my job.

Strictly speaking, if we didn't trade with the EU, they would crash too.

Evilmags

Norway is a very small market compared to the UK...

RaymondLin

The point is we need to trade with them more than they need to trade with us. They are the bigger fish.

Right now the EU is pissed and there is no way in hell we will come away with a deal better than what we had before because that would send the message out that you would be better off out of the EU to all the other members and the last thing they want is anyone else leaving. So they will make an example of us.

ewal

There has been alot of scaremongering on either sides. I think this piece in the Telegraph is more considered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/the-eu-will-treat-britain-like-greece/

p90fool

thomasross20;1129935" said:

p90fool said:

thomasross20;1129827" said:What about the folk who voted remain who are relieved with the decision? We simply don't know. What if we vote again and the result is still leave? 

We didn't "vote leave", we just had a totally inconclusive opinion poll, the result of which was an almost exact split down the middle.



You can't base the future of half a continent on the concept of sneaking a late winner, it's not a bloody football match. It's simple, NOBODY WON.










Devil's advocate: If it were 52:48 for remain, do you think we'd be saying the same things? 

I would, I've said for months that this kind of decision should be taken only with a proper majority of something like 70%, in fact something approaching the legal requirements imposed on unions before they're allowed to take strike action.

What the hell is the point in just shading a victory, in either direction?

Boris "won" and he's shaking like a shitting dog, he knows it's no mandate.

hywelg

Fatfingers;1130146" said:

hywelg said:

I do not want 330k immigration every year for the next 20years or even 5 years





Do you mind if I ask why? 

Not at all. I have stated previously why population growth is my main concern not immigration. Unfettered immigration prevents population control of any sort.

Firstly housing. Many of my kids generation cannot get on the housing ladder. House prices are far too high because demand is high, too high.

Secondly, traffic. Ever tried to get anywhere during rush hour?. There are simply too many people trying to use our roads. It didnt use to be like this.

Thirdly services. We have a health service that would just about cope with 55 million. Schools are full and expanding. Social services are overworked.

We have no hope of ever getting on top of these problems with an extra million people every 3 years. Now if were could persuade some white, non-working class to leave at the same rate as eastern Europeans came in I'd be fine with that. Population control.

dindude

capo4th said:

It's quite staggering that lots of people have voted to make themselves less well off.

It's even more staggering that the Leadership of this Country would put to the vote an option that would result in what we have seen - political and economical meltdown.

That's not choice, that's lunacy. 

Heartfeltdawn

Evilmags said:

Norway is a very small market compared to the UK...

They'd still beat us in the knockout stages.

Fatfingers

But it's a fact that EU migrants contribute overwhelmingly positively to the exchequer. So there is plenty of money for all those services. Surely the problem isn't the migrants, it's that the money they contribute isn't spent on building the infrastructure we need.

mellowsun

hywelg said:

We have no hope of ever getting on top of these problems with an extra million people every 3 years. Now if were could persuade some white, non-working class to leave at the same rate as eastern Europeans came in I'd be fine with that. Population control.

I guess we'll need to see what happens now. If we do leave the EU, in addition to EU nationals leaving, there may also well be an exodus of young people, businesses and professionals from the UK, so the population may come down further.

nanoman

I read today that the slight economic upturn is what's known as the 'dead cat bounce' as the small investors bundle in. Hopefully they can afford the long haul.

RaymondLin

mellowsun said:

hywelg said:

We have no hope of ever getting on top of these problems with an extra million people every 3 years. Now if were could persuade some white, non-working class to leave at the same rate as eastern Europeans came in I'd be fine with that. Population control.

I guess we'll need to see what happens now. If we do leave the EU, in addition to EU nationals leaving, there may also well be an exodus of young people, businesses and professionals from the UK, so the population may come down further.

Great, the ones who can leave, as in the clever and rich ones.  Leaving behind the stupid and poor.  (so to speak)

We are meant to be a progressive modern outward looking country attracting the best and the brightest to come and work and live here.  But we are sending out a message that we don't want them here.

Just perfect.

Drew_TNBD

I'm thinking we might move to Japan when the kid is born. Just get the fuck outta here.

mellowsun

RaymondLin said:

Great, the ones who can leave, as in the clever and rich ones.  Leaving behind the stupid and poor.  (so to speak)

We are meant to be a progressive modern outward looking country attracting the best and the brightest to come and work and live here.  But we are sending out a message that we don't want them here.

That's exactly the message that is going out to students (not just from the EU, but internationally), to business and to skilled workers.

The crazy thing is that in recent years we have had record tax takes. We could have spent the money improving infrastructure: more houses, schools, rail roads, hospitals, clinics, to mitigate the demand effects of our success at attracting people to come and work here.

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

I'm thinking we might move to Japan when the kid is born. Just get the fuck outta here.

We're actively talking about leaving, putting things in place so we can if need be.

Just a waiting game now.

digitalscream

RaymondLin said:

mellowsun said:

hywelg said:

We have no hope of ever getting on top of these problems with an extra million people every 3 years. Now if were could persuade some white, non-working class to leave at the same rate as eastern Europeans came in I'd be fine with that. Population control.

I guess we'll need to see what happens now. If we do leave the EU, in addition to EU nationals leaving, there may also well be an exodus of young people, businesses and professionals from the UK, so the population may come down further.

Great, the ones who can leave, as in the clever and rich ones.  Leaving behind the stupid and poor.  (so to speak)

We are meant to be a progressive modern outward looking country attracting the best and the brightest to come and work and live here.  But we are sending out a message that we don't want them here.

Just perfect.

Just heard from a mate of mine down in London - his tech startup (and a couple of others) have just had their VC funding frozen with a view to withdrawing it completely. Meanwhile, there's apparently a business fund being set up in Europe to take in all London's waifs and strays, and he's seriously considering it as a means of keeping his funding going.

So...not only are we effectively turning away the best and brightest as they're knocking on our door, we're probably going to start seeing our own best and brightest waving as they head out the door too.

mellowsun

digitalscream said:

Just heard from a mate of mine down in London - his tech startup (and a couple of others) have just had their VC funding frozen with a view to withdrawing it completely. Meanwhile, there's apparently a business fund being set up in Europe to take in all London's waifs and strays, and he's seriously considering it as a means of keeping his funding going.

So...not only are we effectively turning away the best and brightest as they're knocking on our door, we're probably going to start seeing our own best and brightest waving as they head out the door too.

That's pretty serious, it's likely to have a domino effect as the VC community is pretty small and they all know and talk to each other.

RaymondLin

digitalscream said:

RaymondLin said:

mellowsun said:

hywelg said:

We have no hope of ever getting on top of these problems with an extra million people every 3 years. Now if were could persuade some white, non-working class to leave at the same rate as eastern Europeans came in I'd be fine with that. Population control.

I guess we'll need to see what happens now. If we do leave the EU, in addition to EU nationals leaving, there may also well be an exodus of young people, businesses and professionals from the UK, so the population may come down further.

Great, the ones who can leave, as in the clever and rich ones.  Leaving behind the stupid and poor.  (so to speak)

We are meant to be a progressive modern outward looking country attracting the best and the brightest to come and work and live here.  But we are sending out a message that we don't want them here.

Just perfect.

Just heard from a mate of mine down in London - his tech startup (and a couple of others) have just had their VC funding frozen with a view to withdrawing it completely. Meanwhile, there's apparently a business fund being set up in Europe to take in all London's waifs and strays, and he's seriously considering it as a means of keeping his funding going.

So...not only are we effectively turning away the best and brightest as they're knocking on our door, we're probably going to start seeing our own best and brightest waving as they head out the door too.

If I were in his shoes, I'd do it.  See it as an opportunity to work in Europe and perhaps end up with a dual nationality. 

octatonic

digitalscream said:

RaymondLin said:

mellowsun said:

hywelg said:

We have no hope of ever getting on top of these problems with an extra million people every 3 years. Now if were could persuade some white, non-working class to leave at the same rate as eastern Europeans came in I'd be fine with that. Population control.

I guess we'll need to see what happens now. If we do leave the EU, in addition to EU nationals leaving, there may also well be an exodus of young people, businesses and professionals from the UK, so the population may come down further.

Great, the ones who can leave, as in the clever and rich ones.  Leaving behind the stupid and poor.  (so to speak)

We are meant to be a progressive modern outward looking country attracting the best and the brightest to come and work and live here.  But we are sending out a message that we don't want them here.

Just perfect.

Just heard from a mate of mine down in London - his tech startup (and a couple of others) have just had their VC funding frozen with a view to withdrawing it completely. Meanwhile, there's apparently a business fund being set up in Europe to take in all London's waifs and strays, and he's seriously considering it as a means of keeping his funding going.

So...not only are we effectively turning away the best and brightest as they're knocking on our door, we're probably going to start seeing our own best and brightest waving as they head out the door too.

This is just he beginning.

Many, many corporations have headcount freezes on right now, waiting on the result of the referendum and now still in place and no plan to be lifted.

p90fool

Drew_fx;1130393" said:

I'm thinking we might move to Japan when the kid is born. Just get the fuck outta here.

Nothing is that simple any more, the Japanese stock market has been hit as hard as anyone's by Brexit.