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I think Harley Benton are pretty much the cheapest guitars I've seen so, presumably, those who feel they're already just as good as anything feel that diminishing returns happens already at the second cheapest guitar.
I find it very easy to get caught up in theoretical quality comparisons and can almost briefly lose sight of the main important thing which is whether something can be used to make great music or not. For example, in a band that I'm absolutely loving lately - Khruangbin - the bassist plays an SX bass (which I think are at least in the ball park of Harley Benton) and I get an intense amount of pleasure out of the sound she makes with that instrument. I would possibly even guess that if she swapped it for a Custom Shop bass for the record, I might not get any extra enjoyment at all.
On the other hand, if I'm listening to another favourite of mine - John Mayer - who does use expensive gear, I get so much pleasure out of the subtleties of the sound his rig makes as he plays it so precisely. I could believe that I'd get slightly less pleasure from it if he used budget gear.
Having said the above re: losing sight; I do think that when someone dedicates a large part of their life to making music and puts everything they can in to making it as good as possible, it's understandable they'd want to spend as much as they can afford on gear if it truly will benefit the sound of their music.
Clue - the devil is in the details.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
There are two more...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
The switches aren't too bad but it would probably be the next candidate.
So there it is - what *really* separates a Harley Benton from an R8 in terms of what makes a professional-quality musical instrument - a fiver's worth of parts, or a tenner if you're being fussy . Everything else is just diminishing returns...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Pots. I hate the scratchy pots you get on cheap guitars.
I'm fairly certain that some people have also been offered big chances because they've got the right hair or the right clothes rather than the exceptional musical talent.
Superficiality is a strong persuader.
It's interesting isn't it - the bits that make the most difference in a practical sense are not the type of woods, the pickups, or even the more expensive hardware like the machineheads (although they may be on the list, but further up), but the cheapest parts... the ones where penny-pinching on the quality makes the least difference to the final price.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Usually I just put a bit of cocktail stick in with smaller screws, anyone know any tips for large screws like the neck bolts?
The woods do make a difference. I don't mind playing cheaper guitars, but I don't want some thin sounding unresponsive lump of a guitar.
It definitely is the wood. I've had guitars that were very bright sounding unplugged, and sounded very thin when plugged in. Pickup swaps did not help. The plugged in sound is dependent on the unplugged sound. It is the wood (and construction) of the guitar.
That's not necessarily entirely down to price. I've seen cheap guitars that sound really good (even with stock pickups). My brother in law had a Squier Affinity Tele that sounded really good. Wouldn't stay in tune but sounded great. On the other hand, you can get thin sounding expensive guitars. More care goes into the selection of wood on more expensive ones, so it's less likely but it does happen.
The hardware on cheap guitars generally isn't good though. Whatever the pickups are like, the pots, bridges, and machine heads normally let down what could be a very good guitar.
By the time you spend significant money upgrading those things on a basic guitar, you are probably better off spending £600 and getting a Mexican Fender or a PRS SE. The pickups might not be great but the hardware and conctruction is much better quality.
Above that £600 price point, there are diminishing returns, but it's the same with anything. A £7k Dacia will feel cheap. A £20k Toyota is a huge step up, and will be reliable, and do anything most drivers will want, but it isn't as nice as a £50k Merc. Likewise with watches. You can get a basic watch for a fiver, but it will be rubbish. You can spend £30 and get something much better. You can spend £200 and get something that, for all practical purposes, is just as good as a Rolex, but people still buy Rolexes.
The Harley Benton stuff is in the £7k Dacia range. It is cheap and corners are cut. It will work, in the same way that a Dacia will get you to work in the morning, but both will have limitations. The Dacia will have uncomfortable seats and a crummy stereo, and might leave you stuck behind something unable to overtake. In the same way, the HB won't feel as nice as a higher end guitar, and the stock set up won't be as good as it could be. The pickups won't be great sounding.
For me, it's that £600 price point that is in the Toyota range. You get something good and solid, with consistently good engineering. Unlike cars though, guitars are made from an organic material, so some of those £600 guitars will still sound better than others. Yes you can put better hardware and pickups on a cheapie, and get a good set up, but unless you can do all the work yourself, it's going to cost £300 and you might as well buy a £600 guitar to start with.
This sounds like a bodge, but it's actually the best and strongest way.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
There’s nothing wrong with appreciating instruments for their craftsmanship and material value.
In my experience, when you're down at the £300 mark, as a matter of course you can expect dodgy routing, stripped screws as factory standard, no fret dressing (I’ve seen dull, rusty frets on a new Ibanez at £700!) and muddy pickups. You’re also looking at poorer (aesthetic) grades of wood, most importantly the fretboard where a rough, dry piece of cardboard brown “rosewood” looks like crap.
Yes diminishing returns applies early, particularly where the instrument is considered purely as a tool. But I don’t think many people will be buying a 60th anniversary R9 in the firm belief it’ll make them sound any better than they would on a USA standard.
Sometimes its just nice to have quality stuff.
Yes, we're suckers for "mojo" and custom shop silliness, but we're kind of aware of our susceptibility at the same time.
I know two players who never look at guitar forums who've bought Chibsons thinking they're real, and it's almost universal among technophobes that Valvestate Marshalls are "real valve amps just like Jimi used".
We might be a bunch of mug punters on here, but we know it and revel in it.