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From my perspective, if a guitar comes with the case gubbins, it stays in the case and I keep it. Same with pedals (boxes, paperwork, etc).
I can see the point of provenance, blahblahblah with vintage or £££ gear, but I wouldn’t be bleating or angling for major discounts if it wasn’t there.
As others have said...I don’t buy guitars for investment purposes - it’s just because I like ‘em...
I suppose part of the issue issue is twofold:
a. Stuff is easier to fake than ever before (so people like the ‘comfort’ of additional evidence (although that too can be faked) and...
b. While info on t’interweb is available to all nowadays, it enables us all to become obsessed with minutae (and also allows the spread of misinformation, eg. ‘Lawsuit’, etc...)
HarrySeven - Intangible Asset Appraiser & Wrecker of Civilisation. Searching for weird guitars - so you don't have to.
Forum feedback thread. | G&B interview #1 & #2 | https://www.instagram.com/_harry_seven_/
Or how something with proven authenticity is valued the same as something without it?
Anyway, if people wanna throw away/lose there COA/certs and then expect no reduction in value, good luck to them
I have brought a couple of high end guitars over the past 12 months that had their COA's missing. I didn't realise for one and just expected it to be in the case as it came from a very reliable dealer that did not mention it was missing .The seller was a little dishonest on the other. I went to the effort of getting replacements for both of these, one from a USA builder and the other from the a UK builder. Sad I know but easy to do in these instances but I guess if they had been PRS, Gibson or Fender it would have been another story.
If the price is right, then not having some crappy bits of paper should not mean that you drop the price unless you’re desperate for a sale. Or, if buying, if the paperwork isn’t present then it’s simply a case of do you think the price is right for that guitar?
This can only be a problem for flippers who want to maximise their potential. Anyone who wants to actually use the thing won’t give a shit.
“I've been after this spec model for ages at this price. Think I might walk away though because the resale might be affected for a small portion of the market.” said no one ever.
Too much time worrying about perceived issues. If the guitar is priced right you will buy or you will sell. Stop overthinking.
I presume they're only bought by collectors and not players!
5 R9s for sale at £3000. One doesn't have a coa and all have similar tops, which get sold first?
The players answer is the one that plays the best - but you will go and see the one without the coa last.
Secondly, this is the ramblings of H7...I’ll get me coat.
As I said earlier, in the age of t’interweb, we’ve become obsessed with forensic detail. Everyone’s an expert - and manufacturers obviously exploit this. It’s a sad fact, but people like to think they’re breathing rarefied air. More so now than ever...it’s just one long narcissistic wank-fest.
While on that topic, there’s something hideously vulgar about the whole “Custom Shop”, “Private Stock”, blahblahblah idea, pandering to the perceived desirability of highly-individualised commodities (although ‘twas ever thus). Beneath this are ever-increasing, microscopically-differentiated (and vast) product ranges (vital to snare that additional tiny market %). It’s just marketing, nothing more.
Collecting in the volume I do, I’m perhaps not one to talk, but then it’s a different economy of scale and values. I own plenty of vintage/higher-end stuff, but I’m just as excited by a Kimbara Strat copy as a pre-CBS Jazzmaster. I really couldn’t give a gnat’s knacker if this year’s R8 is more accurate than last year’s R8, or if PRS himself hand-carved his latest creation from the one remaining plank of Noah’s Ark, garnishing it with bits of one of the lost Faberge Imperial eggs.
IMHO, my responses to the two snippets from @bgmartinsbridge post would be:
a. Because they’re told to think that.
b. Just because you’re outnumbered, it doesn’t make you wrong.
HarrySeven - Intangible Asset Appraiser & Wrecker of Civilisation. Searching for weird guitars - so you don't have to.
Forum feedback thread. | G&B interview #1 & #2 | https://www.instagram.com/_harry_seven_/
I short - because it is, doesn't make it morally right. However it is.
We all 'wish' that paperwork on mid to high end guitars would not effect the price but it does, that's the truth, end of.
Some people on here don't care about paperwork and are happy to take guitars without it but the majority of people buying guitars want the paperwork, hence why prices are higher with them and lower without.
It's not really a debate when the market drives the facts. It's basic supply and demand (the majority of of people want it or believe it etc).
It’s a small minority who buy and sell high-end guitars, and possibly even a minority of those.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
That why on here, a mod to high end guitar without paperwork sells for less and takes longer to sell.
I 'personally' don't think it's right that paperwork has an impact but it does.
You 'personally' may not care but other people on here, when it comes to spending their cash, do.
I'll repeat a previous point I made - 5 R9s for sale, 1 doesn't have paperwork. They're all fairly local and have similar tops. Which do you go a try first and last?
It's like a car with and without a service history - you want it but without full history you take the one with history over it.
#If you want a case in point try and sell a Gibson R8 or R9 on here without paperwork and see what happens#
It’s a minority who buy and sell high-end guitars, at most.
And personally, if I wanted to buy an R8 or R9, whether or not there was a piece of paper in the case would have precisely zero input into the decision.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Again you use 'I'.
Next time you sell a guitar on here, list it without paperwork and see what happens.
Noone on this thread is talking about bottom end guitars.
As Harry Seven quite rightly says, this is purely marketing appealing to the internet-driven vanity of everyone wishing to seem like an expert. More meaningless stats are bandied about on forums than ever before, people refuse to even try a guitar if it weighs half a pound more (!!) than their own self-imposed arbitrary weight limit. It's all very silly.
I've never had to accept less on a sale of ANY guitar, Custom Shop or otherwise, because it didn't have all its "stuff". It would never stop me buying a good guitar either.
I’ve sold my guitars to people who actually play them and none of them have asked for the ‘paperwork’... ever.
That includes several PRSs and a couple of Gibsons.
I also work for a shop and I can’t think of one case where ‘paperwork’ has had any bearing on the sale price.
As StuartMac290 said, it’s an internet forum thing.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Only 'real players' should buy guitars and they don't ask for paperwork and everyone else should just fade away.
And again, it's top end guitars, not 600 - 1500 quid.
Unless it was a custom shop or similar they just seemed to grab any of the brown gibson cases from the store room and put the guitar in it.