Buying a car

TTony

Emp_Fab said:

 I can't be sure if this is justified paranoia or not

Just listen to the voices.

Trust the voices.

One of them will be right.

Revolting1

Emp_Fab said:

An interesting discovery....   I'm buying a 2.2L Diesel Honda Civic that I have a concern about the clutch with....

https://www.civinfo.com/wiki/index.php?title=Slipping_clutch

This manufacturing defect affects only 2.2L Diesel Honda Civics.

      Top detective work Watson   whhoops Emp

         

     Suggests they had clutch spring and dual mass flywheel issues at the time.

You want to listen for a timing chain rattle as the revs drop after you've  revved it.

   The clutch may well be fine as long as it will adjust ok-

   Just begs the question why hasn't the dealer already had it done- 20 miniute ish job

  Mildly strange as he took the time to put C S K plates on the car to photograph it.

   Unless he thinks its got a concentric slave on the way out.

   ( it dosent have a concentric slave)

     Just trust your instincts.

LordOxygen

It's an old diesel, therefore it will rattle and clang like a bag of rusty, old spanners being thrown against a wall. 

randella

Emp_Fab said:

Drive....  Without Aircon?  My God....  Who are you people?  I'm sharing a forum with barbarians!!

In other news, I'm now getting anxious about the timing chain.  I can't be sure if this is justified paranoia or not as I don't know what a 2.2 Civic engine is supposed to sound like, but this one sounds a bit "Fffzzzzshy" when you rev it.  Like the sound a bicycle chain makes when you back-pedal fast.

I suppose that, at the end of the day, it's a cheap car that's been looked after as well as anyone could wish for (FMDSH, Premium tyres) and I'm lucky to have found it (courtesy of @jaytmon ) and that being realistic for a moment, if the timing chain snaps and destroys the engine or the clutch goes and costs me half the car's value to fix it, then really, it's all Jaytmon's fault.

My Focus had some slap in the timing chain because I once stupidly let the oil run a bit low and the hydraulic tensioner stopped tensioning as well as it should, manifesting as a rattling noise under heavy load.

After 40,000 miles of ignoring said noise it was still fine.

Yours might snap the day you take delivery of the car, but most likely it'll not.  I'm led to believe they don't break anyway, but either stretch and throw a timing error to the ECU, or slip a tooth.

That's the fun of used cars.  Stop worrying and drive the bloody thing until something *does* break.

jaytmon

Emp_Fab said:

I suppose that, at the end of the day, it's a cheap car that's been looked after as well as anyone could wish for (FMDSH, Premium tyres) and I'm lucky to have found it (courtesy of @jaytmon ) and that being realistic for a moment, if the timing chain snaps and destroys the engine or the clutch goes and costs me half the car's value to fix it, then really, it's all Jaytmon's fault.

I’m here to help absolve you of any responsibility  

RaymondLin

Nvm

Danny1969

I think it's a chain on that Civic, should be good for 50K miles once it starts rattling  ... 

10 years ago I needed a 4.2 Ton Transit and eventually found one near Cornwall. So I go there with a mate and look at the van, start it up and it sounds horrendous . Like there's no oil in the engine. Listening to the engine while putting it under load convinced me it was actually just a worn cam lobe though so I brought it. 
Ten years later that cam lobes still tapping like a demented shoe cobbler but all I've ever done is put pads, shoes and new wheel cylinders on it. Never touched the engine. 

I'm gonna buy a car when I get back from holiday but I'm just gonna buy a used Focus as parts are plentiful and cheap. Honda and other Jap cars are great but you can come unstuck on parts pricing ... even using marts like Euro Car parts. 

celentium

Sounds like vtec bro

PC_Dave

Danny1969 said:

I'm gonna buy a car when I get back from holiday but I'm just gonna buy a used Focus as parts are plentiful and cheap. Honda and other Jap cars are great but you can come unstuck on parts pricing ... even using marts like Euro Car parts. 

Don’t come to this thread with your sensible and rational thoughts please.

Completely irrational and borderline mental thoughts about car purchases only please.

welshboyo

Just buy the car, if it doesn't break then you are good, if it does, then you just fix it - its one of the gambles/risks you take in the cheaper used car game unfortunately.

We've had 3 Honda's (2 Civics - 1 of which was the 2.2D, a 1.6 diesel and a HRV) - the only "issue" we had over 6 years was an electronic handbrake failure on the HRV.

I can remember the 2.2 being quite a clatter actually - reason being I can remember the slight irony in the word "Dreams" being on the rocker cover....great engine though - loads of grunt - if the clutch was slipping you would have noticed it if you booted it as I seem to remember a fairly large torque figure on that car...you did boot it, right?

boogieman

ewal said:

It's a pipe that's gone on mine. An expensive pipe...

If it’s steel it could be brazed or welded up. More tricky if it’s aluminium but still doable by a specialist welder. If it’s rubber it’s even more tricky but if you know anyone from Pirtek (the mobile lot that do onsite repairs on JCBs, tractors etc) they could rustle you one up for a lot less than the manufacturer will charge. 

EricTheWeary

welshboyo said:

Just buy the car, if it doesn't break then you are good, if it does, then you just fix it - its one of the gambles/risks you take in the cheaper used car game unfortunately.

We've had 3 Honda's (2 Civics - 1 of which was the 2.2D, a 1.6 diesel and a HRV) - the only "issue" we had over 6 years was an electronic handbrake failure on the HRV.

I can remember the 2.2 being quite a clatter actually - reason being I can remember the slight irony in the word "Dreams" being on the rocker cover....great engine though - loads of grunt - if the clutch was slipping you would have noticed it if you booted it as I seem to remember a fairly large torque figure on that car...you did boot it, right?

I think the 2.2 was an older engine design and Honda developed the 1.6 as a brand new diesel with lower emissions, etc, to be made in the UK at the peak of diesel mania ( mine is the 1.6 , the only reason I have any idea about this) and that replaced the 2.2 about seven or eight years ago. If Emp has been used to recent diesel cars this is really a generation before, I think, so might be slightly agricultural. Reading a review from 2011 of a brand new 2.2 Civic it talks about clatter and some lack of refinement. I doubt if the intervening miles will have helped. 

I remember buying a used Allegro for about £1200 so a couple of thou for a used Civic is good value for money these days. I have a friend who only buys old cars and never spends more than £2k and it's a gamble at the end of the day. 

welshboyo

EricTheWeary said:

welshboyo said:

Just buy the car, if it doesn't break then you are good, if it does, then you just fix it - its one of the gambles/risks you take in the cheaper used car game unfortunately.

We've had 3 Honda's (2 Civics - 1 of which was the 2.2D, a 1.6 diesel and a HRV) - the only "issue" we had over 6 years was an electronic handbrake failure on the HRV.

I can remember the 2.2 being quite a clatter actually - reason being I can remember the slight irony in the word "Dreams" being on the rocker cover....great engine though - loads of grunt - if the clutch was slipping you would have noticed it if you booted it as I seem to remember a fairly large torque figure on that car...you did boot it, right?

I think the 2.2 was an older engine design and Honda developed the 1.6 as a brand new diesel with lower emissions, etc, to be made in the UK at the peak of diesel mania ( mine is the 1.6 , the only reason I have any idea about this) and that replaced the 2.2 about seven or eight years ago. If Emp has been used to recent diesel cars this is really a generation before, I think, so might be slightly agricultural. Reading a review from 2011 of a brand new 2.2 Civic it talks about clatter and some lack of refinement. I doubt if the intervening miles will have helped. 

I remember buying a used Allegro for about £1200 so a couple of thou for a used Civic is good value for money these days. I have a friend who only buys old cars and never spends more than £2k and it's a gamble at the end of the day. 

Yes, we had a 13 plate 1.6 Civic and that was the 1st of the 1.6's - lighter ali engine etc with similar power though.

Our old 2.2 (07 plate) was still fairly clean though from an emissions perspective - it was at that time about £40 a year tax.

ronnyb

I've bought and sold dozens of cars in my motoring lifetime and for what it's worth i think you can buy as much trouble with a car around £2k - £3k as you can with a cheapie, circa £600 to £700. If it's only a temporary fix until the right car comes along i'd be thinking like that. At least you don't lose much if it goes bang.

LordOxygen

welshboyo said:

EricTheWeary said:

I think the 2.2 was an older engine design and Honda developed the 1.6 as a brand new diesel with lower emissions, etc, to be made in the UK at the peak of diesel mania ( mine is the 1.6 , the only reason I have any idea about this) and that replaced the 2.2 about seven or eight years ago. If Emp has been used to recent diesel cars this is really a generation before, I think, so might be slightly agricultural. Reading a review from 2011 of a brand new 2.2 Civic it talks about clatter and some lack of refinement. I doubt if the intervening miles will have helped. 

I remember buying a used Allegro for about £1200 so a couple of thou for a used Civic is good value for money these days. I have a friend who only buys old cars and never spends more than £2k and it's a gamble at the end of the day. 

Yes, we had a 13 plate 1.6 Civic and that was the 1st of the 1.6's - lighter ali engine etc with similar power though.

Our old 2.2 (07 plate) was still fairly clean though from an emissions perspective - it was at that time about £40 a year tax.

Your old 2.2 Civic will have relatively low CO2 emissions, which is what the current road fund licence is (foolishly, imo) scaled on.
However the particulate and NO which (oxidises into NO2) it emits will be very high esp when driving it on short journeys in urban areas. This wasn't considered important 15+ yrs ago when the RFL sysyem was changed, no doubt with the benifit of hindsight the system wouldn't have been weighted so heavily on CO2 alone.

Petol cars do emit more CO2, diesels, esp old ones, give kids walking to school asthma. 

Take your pick.

Both fuel types are crap in differnt ways. Diesel is a dirty technology with nasty emissions that aren't taxed but should be.  Some big cities are starting to ban old diesel cars which is a good thing.

boogieman

LordOxygen said:

welshboyo said:

EricTheWeary said:

I think the 2.2 was an older engine design and Honda developed the 1.6 as a brand new diesel with lower emissions, etc, to be made in the UK at the peak of diesel mania ( mine is the 1.6 , the only reason I have any idea about this) and that replaced the 2.2 about seven or eight years ago. If Emp has been used to recent diesel cars this is really a generation before, I think, so might be slightly agricultural. Reading a review from 2011 of a brand new 2.2 Civic it talks about clatter and some lack of refinement. I doubt if the intervening miles will have helped. 

I remember buying a used Allegro for about £1200 so a couple of thou for a used Civic is good value for money these days. I have a friend who only buys old cars and never spends more than £2k and it's a gamble at the end of the day. 

Yes, we had a 13 plate 1.6 Civic and that was the 1st of the 1.6's - lighter ali engine etc with similar power though.

Our old 2.2 (07 plate) was still fairly clean though from an emissions perspective - it was at that time about £40 a year tax.

Your old 2.2 Civic will have relatively low CO2 emissions, which is what the current road fund licence is (foolishly, imo) scaled on.
However the particulate and NO which (oxidises into NO2) it emits will be very high esp when driving it on short journeys in urban areas. This wasn't considered important 15+ yrs ago when the RFL sysyem was changed, no doubt with the benifit of hindsight the system wouldn't have been weighted so heavily on CO2 alone.

Petol cars do emit more CO2, diesels, esp old ones, give kids walking to school asthma. 

Take your pick.

Both fuel types are crap in differnt ways. Diesel is a dirty technology with nasty emissions that aren't taxed but should be.  Some big cities are starting to ban old diesel cars which is a good thing.

Not a complete ban necessarily. London has just introduced the ultra low emissions zone, you’ll pay a hefty fee to drive a pre 2015 diesel in the current congestion zone. It’s expanding to include a chunk of outer London in the next couple of years. Other cities are assessing it and will probably take it up. Older diesel sales have taken a massive hit in the London area already and it’ll only get harder to shift them in the future. 

ewal

boogieman said:

ewal said:

It's a pipe that's gone on mine. An expensive pipe...

If it’s steel it could be brazed or welded up. More tricky if it’s aluminium but still doable by a specialist welder. If it’s rubber it’s even more tricky but if you know anyone from Pirtek (the mobile lot that do onsite repairs on JCBs, tractors etc) they could rustle you one up for a lot less than the manufacturer will charge. 

Suspect it's aluminium. The garage said the pipe was about £150 + vat, so about £300 with the labour. I'm happy to forego air con;) Just focussing on getting the electric window working again - scouring ebay for a replacement front door wiring loom...

LordOxygen

boogieman said:

LordOxygen said:

welshboyo said:

EricTheWeary said:

I think the 2.2 was an older engine design and Honda developed the 1.6 as a brand new diesel with lower emissions, etc, to be made in the UK at the peak of diesel mania ( mine is the 1.6 , the only reason I have any idea about this) and that replaced the 2.2 about seven or eight years ago. If Emp has been used to recent diesel cars this is really a generation before, I think, so might be slightly agricultural. Reading a review from 2011 of a brand new 2.2 Civic it talks about clatter and some lack of refinement. I doubt if the intervening miles will have helped. 

I remember buying a used Allegro for about £1200 so a couple of thou for a used Civic is good value for money these days. I have a friend who only buys old cars and never spends more than £2k and it's a gamble at the end of the day. 

Yes, we had a 13 plate 1.6 Civic and that was the 1st of the 1.6's - lighter ali engine etc with similar power though.

Our old 2.2 (07 plate) was still fairly clean though from an emissions perspective - it was at that time about £40 a year tax.

Your old 2.2 Civic will have relatively low CO2 emissions, which is what the current road fund licence is (foolishly, imo) scaled on.
However the particulate and NO which (oxidises into NO2) it emits will be very high esp when driving it on short journeys in urban areas. This wasn't considered important 15+ yrs ago when the RFL sysyem was changed, no doubt with the benifit of hindsight the system wouldn't have been weighted so heavily on CO2 alone.

Petol cars do emit more CO2, diesels, esp old ones, give kids walking to school asthma. 

Take your pick.

Both fuel types are crap in differnt ways. Diesel is a dirty technology with nasty emissions that aren't taxed but should be.  Some big cities are starting to ban old diesel cars which is a good thing.

Not a complete ban necessarily. London has just introduced the ultra low emissions zone, you’ll pay a hefty fee to drive a pre 2015 diesel in the current congestion zone. It’s expanding to include a chunk of outer London in the next couple of years. Other cities are assessing it and will probably take it up. Older diesel sales have taken a massive hit in the London area already and it’ll only get harder to shift them in the future. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-emissions-factbox/factbox-german-cities-ban-older-diesel-cars-idUSKBN1ND1ZV

Bridgehouse

Come on guys, can we keep this thread on topic? This isn’t a thread about the merits of buying one car over another - it’s about massive procrastination, amusing memes and people having a nervous breakdown because someone else hasn’t bought a car. 

Revolting1

Honda

 Had one never do another.