Gibson R8 or Harley Benton with Pickup Upgrades?

ICBM

thegummy said:

Are you meaning a Strat with humbuckers or a standard Strat?

If the latter, does your point here not pretty much mean anyone putting a humbucker in a Strat is wasting their time and money?

What would the point be of you switching between your 2 guitars if they both sound the same anyway?

I've never done any blind test or anything but I do find it hard to believe that Strats (on the neck or bridge) and Les Pauls are interchangeable when they seem to sound so distinctly different to me.

Standard Strat. No, you’re not wasting your time by putting a humbucker in a Strat because they *do* sound and respond differently to the player - and they also sound different if you don’t change the sound of the amp to compensate.

But when you’re not the player, it’s much harder to tell - listen to gringopig’s test if you haven’t already. That’s the whole point of what I’m saying - to a listener, there is very little difference even between totally different guitars, let alone two of almost identical design but widely different price points.

But when you’re the player, little things make a big difference. Your ears and fingers are inside the ‘feedback loop’, and you can be very aware of tiny differences, even in things like fingerboard woods and finish types - by sound, not just feel - which are undetectable to a listener.

TeleMaster

I can normally hear the difference between humbucker and single coils on a recorded song. I was listening to a song the other day and it sounded so Straty I just thought, he’s playing a Strat. I checked and I was right. The other guitarist had a thicker sound and I thought it was a Les Paul and it turned out it was. 

ICBM

TeleMaster said:

I can normally hear the difference between humbucker and single coils on a recorded song. I was listening to a song the other day and it sounded so Straty I just thought, he’s playing a Strat. I checked and I was right. The other guitarist had a thicker sound and I thought it was a Les Paul and it turned out it was. 

That’s partly because players choose to use those guitars because they want to use those types of typical sounds. But there are also plenty of examples of the recorded sounds being *not* done with the guitar it’s usually thought to be.

And it’s certainly true that the Strat in-between sound is distinctive and can’t be done with a Les Paul.

thegummy

TeleMaster said:

I can normally hear the difference between humbucker and single coils on a recorded song. I was listening to a song the other day and it sounded so Straty I just thought, he’s playing a Strat. I checked and I was right. The other guitarist had a thicker sound and I thought it was a Les Paul and it turned out it was. 

I've had those thoughts loads and been right. Don't think I've ever thought I was hearing one of those guitars and it turned out to be the other.

There was a song I thought was a Les Paul but turned out to be a 335 though.

thegummy

ICBM said:

TeleMaster said:

I can normally hear the difference between humbucker and single coils on a recorded song. I was listening to a song the other day and it sounded so Straty I just thought, he’s playing a Strat. I checked and I was right. The other guitarist had a thicker sound and I thought it was a Les Paul and it turned out it was. 

That’s partly because players choose to use those guitars because they want to use those types of typical sounds. But there are also plenty of examples of the recorded sounds being *not* done with the guitar it’s usually thought to be.

And it’s certainly true that the Strat in-between sound is distinctive and can’t be done with a Les Paul.

Can you think of (or even link) any specific examples where someone's getting a typical Strat or LP sound but it's actually the other guitar being played?

ICBM

thegummy said:

Can you think of (or even link) any specific examples where someone's getting a typical Strat or LP sound but it's actually the other guitar being played?

Two famous examples -

The solo on Another Brick In The Wall was done with a Les Paul.

Wicked World on Black Sabbath was done with a Strat.

OK, Gilmour's Les Paul has P90s and Iommi is assumed to be playing an SG not a Les Paul... but you wouldn't think you would mix up those guitars either!

Jimmy Page famously used a Tele for most of the early Zeppelin studio recordings, not a Les Paul. Peter Green also sometimes played a Strat in Fleetwood Mac, although I don't know on which songs. Maybe that's the point .

Peter Buck recorded The One I Love with a Les Paul, not the Rickenbacker that's in the video... would you mix those up if you were playing them?

thegummy

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

Can you think of (or even link) any specific examples where someone's getting a typical Strat or LP sound but it's actually the other guitar being played?

Two famous examples -

The solo on Another Brick In The Wall was done with a Les Paul.

Wicked World on Black Sabbath was done with a Strat.

OK, Gilmour's Les Paul has P90s and Iommi is assumed to be playing an SG not a Les Paul... but you wouldn't think you would mix up those guitars either!

Jimmy Page famously used a Tele for most of the early Zeppelin studio recordings, not a Les Paul. Peter Green also sometimes played a Strat in Fleetwood Mac, although I don't know on which songs. Maybe that's the point .

Peter Buck recorded The One I Love with a Les Paul, not the Rickenbacker that's in the video... would you mix those up if you were playing them?

The Gilmour one isn't a good example for me because (as a life long Pink Floyd fanatic) I knew the trivia of him using a Les Paul for that song long before I got in to guitars and knew what the difference in the sound of the guitars was lol

But then on listening to the Sabbath example I realised how my asking you for examples isn't going to work - because you've already told me it's a Strat, I just hear it as being a Strat because I'm expecting it.

ICBM

thegummy said:

But then on listening to the Sabbath example I realised how my asking you for examples isn't going to work - because you've already told me it's a Strat, I just hear it as being a Strat because I'm expecting it.

Exactly! We listen with our brains as well as our ears .

I certainly don't deny there's a difference in sound between different guitars - even of the same model, often - it's just remarkable how little there is even between totally different ones when you just take the sound in isolation with no reference.

PolarityMan

I think the one thing we can all agree is that if HB dropped the price of their LP copies it wouldn't generate a 400,000 page thread about it accounting for the GDP of a small country in associated sales. 

darthed1981

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

But then on listening to the Sabbath example I realised how my asking you for examples isn't going to work - because you've already told me it's a Strat, I just hear it as being a Strat because I'm expecting it.

Exactly! We listen with our brains as well as our ears .

I certainly don't deny there's a difference in sound between different guitars - even of the same model, often - it's just remarkable how little there is even between totally different ones when you just take the sound in isolation with no reference.

Indeed, in fact to the punters (a lot of popular music is made for the general public, not just guitarists, though not necessarily many of the bands guitarists listen to) all it sounds like is "an electric guitar".

We all overestimate just how much our "tone" makes a difference to anyone who isn't another guitarist, and even many of those are more musicians than gearheads.

OilCityPickups

PolarityMan said:

I think the one thing we can all agree is that if HB dropped the price of their LP copies it wouldn't generate a 400,000 page thread about it accounting for the GDP of a small country in associated sales. 

Now now ... that was by the way of charity to a poor disadvantaged dealer ... and a parting gift to 'Henry', who probably got a nice weekend in Malibu out of it ... think how hard he worked ... getting the Firebird X designed to conquer the world ... and sourcing all those popular robot tuners ...

Freebird

ICBM said:

TeleMaster said:

I can normally hear the difference between humbucker and single coils on a recorded song. I was listening to a song the other day and it sounded so Straty I just thought, he’s playing a Strat. I checked and I was right. The other guitarist had a thicker sound and I thought it was a Les Paul and it turned out it was. 

That’s partly because players choose to use those guitars because they want to use those types of typical sounds. But there are also plenty of examples of the recorded sounds being *not* done with the guitar it’s usually thought to be.

And it’s certainly true that the Strat in-between sound is distinctive and can’t be done with a Les Paul.

I'll go a step further. As a rule of thumb, play a Telecaster through a Fender/Vox type amp for rhythm, and the Les Paul through a Marshall type amp for lead/embellishments/chorus. Job done, the code was cracked a long time ago  

TTBZ

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

Can you think of (or even link) any specific examples where someone's getting a typical Strat or LP sound but it's actually the other guitar being played?

Two famous examples -

The solo on Another Brick In The Wall was done with a Les Paul.

Wicked World on Black Sabbath was done with a Strat.

Didn't know Wicked World was a strat, always just assumed it was SG with P90s. I really like that tone, usually hate strats when I play them without humbuckers!

Anyone have any info on what Page used for the Heartbreaker main riff? I know the solo is meant to be the first time be used the Les Paul/Marshall combo but can't find as much info about the guitar used for rhythm/riff tracks. If it's a Tele I definitely need to try one, that's one of my favourite rock tones.

ICBM

TTBZ said:

Anyone have any info on what Page used for the Heartbreaker main riff? I know the solo is meant to be the first time be used the Les Paul/Marshall combo but can't find as much info about the guitar used for rhythm/riff tracks. If it's a Tele I definitely need to try one, that's one of my favourite rock tones.

Tele, Vox Tonebender, Rickenbacker Transonic amp.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?7388-Jimmy-Page-Heartbreaker

Nikc

There was a time when I was young I used to pick out guitars and call out what wood it was made of - seriously I was great at it - I'm less of a twat now and just listen to the tunes and enjoy - thinking back I don't think I could really tell, I just got used to who was playing and therefore what the guitar was likely to be

roberty

I've owned about 6 Les Pauls now (not all Gibson) and some of them are just clearer and more present in the band mix without necessarily needing to turn them up as loud. You've got to look for a strong fundamental when playing acoustically and avoid guitars with prominent muddy/fluffy harmonic freqs imo. Resonance is not related to acoustic volume. Same on basses, probably more so because you're not battering your signal with effects and violent EQ. Of course you have to milk the clarity out of your instrument by making the notes you play clean and true

johnl

Interestingly enough here's a video that came out yesterday with two people upgrading a HB Singlecut to compete with a Gibson. What's quite interesting (especially from a Thomann video) is how many criticisms of the guitar they have originally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxmU2CBlZiE

terada

johnl said:

Interestingly enough here's a video that came out yesterday with two people upgrading a HB Singlecut to compete with a Gibson. What's quite interesting (especially from a Thomann video) is how many criticisms of the guitar they have originally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxmU2CBlZiE

So either thomann or rob have seen the thread

johnl

Seems that way. Interestingly they both prefer the Les Paul Tribute at the end of the video so....seems this thread has been answered.

Philly_Q

johnl said:

Seems that way. Interestingly they both prefer the Les Paul Tribute at the end of the video so....seems this thread has been answered.

Although I agree with the chap - didn't catch his name - that the HB with the Bare Knuckle and Duncan sounds better.