Demonstrations in Peckham today -Black Lives Matter

Dominic · May 2020

Seemingly in sympathy with USA there are semi-violent protests ongoing in SE London with some enticement to riot as in the U.s.
Not really sure why we have it here when it's nothing to do with the UK .Maybe just an excuse to cause trouble.
I think the message is very relevant in America where this racist Policing is out of control (not a Trump thing.....it always has been )
You would have thought that with all the exposure of this blatant issue since Rodney King case etc that they would have got hold of this and rooted it out long ago .
You expect it to be more prevalent in the deep South Klan Country but it's actually Everywhere .

Grunfeld · May 2020

My son lives in the US and was asking me about what I remembered about racist attitudes changing over here in the UK. He's 26 so basically grew up in London where, certainly among his peers it was not even on the radar to to be racist, sexist, homophobic, or any of that BS. But I grew up in the 1970s and racism was so endemic that I didn't even know it was a thing.

At some point that all changed and finally we get here: I can't remember if there was a tipping point or more of a gradual realisation that it was really, really wrong, and that you had to take it seriously and you had to dig into all your beliefs and weed out the crap. I think it was the latter.

If it was more of a gradual shift then I wouldn't expect there to be a single trigger that causes attitudes to change over in the US. Just like when my son asked, "Was it the Brixton riots?" and I said dunno, that was part of it for sure but it wasn't a tipping point.

Lastly, I have no idea if this is actually the case but I had the impression that the Army sorted out it's racist problem a long time ago. I mean institutionalised racism, not the odd dickhead (you can't sort those out). If so, how did the Army do it?

TTony · May 2020

Grunfeld said:

I can't remember if there was a tipping point or more of a gradual realisation that it was really, really wrong, and that you had to take it seriously and you had to dig into all your beliefs and weed out the crap. I think it was the latter.

I’d say quite a lot changed, quite quickly, from the mid/late 70s.

I remember my Rock against Racism badges from that era. Probably popularised by the punk movement (with the occasional outlier punk group!).

Around the same time, stuff like the “black & white minstrels show” disappeared from TV too.

The appearance of players like a Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham (there were more, but those are the ones that I remember) in First Division & England football teams - though they didn’t have it easy back then - also around that time.

prowla · May 2020

Firstly we have civil unrest for loo-rolls, sparked off by Australia.

And now we have race riots in Peckham.

TTony · May 2020

prowla said:

Firstly we have civil unrest for loo-roles, sparked off by Australia.

And now we have race riots in Peckham.

I’m struggling to see the connection ...

Unless you’re complaining about all this foreign-influenced unrest being caused in the UK? Bloody foreigners making us go all rioty.

... although I did spot the spelling mistake.

EricTheWeary · May 2020

TTony said:

Grunfeld said:

I can't remember if there was a tipping point or more of a gradual realisation that it was really, really wrong, and that you had to take it seriously and you had to dig into all your beliefs and weed out the crap. I think it was the latter.

I’d say quite a lot changed, quite quickly, from the mid/late 70s.

I remember my Rock against Racism badges from that era. Probably popularised by the punk movement (with the occasional outlier punk group!).

Around the same time, stuff like the “black & white minstrels show” disappeared from TV too.

The appearance of players like a Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham (there were more, but those are the ones that I remember) in First Division & England football teams - though they didn’t have it easy back then - also around that time.

I think I've said before but I found some B&W Minstrel Show footage on YouTube and showed it to my kids ( I'm sure there was a reason at the time) who insisted it was some kind of Spike Lee spoof and that it was never a real thing.

Having worked alongside various police and former police officers there was obviously a bit of a seachange at some point when some of the old practices disappeared ( the endemic sexism, racism, homophobia, bottle of whiskey in the desk drawer) and similar for prison officers too.

My kids have certainly grown up in a culturally diverse environment, I think they are actually disappointed that MrsTheWeary and I don't do some blatantly racist stuff so they can fight against it.

Dominic · May 2020

prowla said:

Firstly we have civil unrest for loo-roles, sparked off by Australia.

And now we have race riots in Peckham.

I don't think these are Race Riots ,there's people of all denominations rightly protesting the American Police Racism in America........but I don't see what they are hoping to achieve HERE or how this influences America or who it's designed to hurt here or how anybody here ,government or otherwise ,has any influence over how Police 8000 miles away in a different country behave .
Dont let's get sidetracked about how racism here has diminished or why the B and W minstrels got taken off air here in England ......the topic was simply what the hell has American rogue Policing got to do with Peckham any more than why aren't people also rioting here over rape in India , illegal detention in Ecuador or refugee camps in Sudan .
How is it our fault and what do they think we can do about it ?.......just seems strange

I do think that decent America has had just about their fill of this and State Governors will have to completely sanitise their Police or they are going to have huge Social unrest......and quite justifiably .I think this one will grow bigger than Rodney King especially with the Corona Frustrations and hardships in the background and imbecilic soundbites from Trump.

Grunfeld · May 2020

Dominic said:

You would have thought that with all the exposure of this blatant issue since Rodney King case etc that they would have got hold of this and rooted it out long ago .

Um, sidetrack? That's the bit of what you wrote which I was responding to at any rate.

EricTheWeary · May 2020

I haven't seen any news today so my entire knowledge about this is from this Discussion.
I doubt if the people in Peckham think they are going to change anything. But perhaps they are demonstrating a solidarity with the people in the USA which those people will find uplifting, perhaps they want to do something that makes them feel like they are doing something, perhaps they want to send a message to the Trump administration that the govt response is not seen as appropriate from afar and this is about an endemic problem within the forces of that administration and not about a few deviant individuals. That is a message the British govt ( lead by a failed foreign secretary) is unlikely to send of it's own volition so citizens feel the need to send that message themselves.

prowla · May 2020

TTony said:

prowla said:

Firstly we have civil unrest for loo-rolls, sparked off by Australia.

And now we have race riots in Peckham.

I’m struggling to see the connection ...

Unless you’re complaining about all this foreign-influenced unrest being caused in the UK? Bloody foreigners making us go all rioty.

... although I did spot the spelling mistake.

Oops - typo corrected!

Yes - even riots are globalised...

prowla · May 2020

Dominic said:

prowla said:

Firstly we have civil unrest for loo-rolls, sparked off by Australia.

And now we have race riots in Peckham.

I don't think these are Race Riots ,there's people of all denominations rightly protesting the American Police Racism in America........but I don't see what they are hoping to achieve HERE or how this influences America or who it's designed to hurt here or how anybody here ,government or otherwise ,has any influence over how Police 8000 miles away in a different country behave .
Dont let's get sidetracked about how racism here has diminished or why the B and W minstrels got taken off air here in England ......the topic was simply what the hell has American rogue Policing got to do with Peckham any more than why aren't people also rioting here over rape in India , illegal detention in Ecuador or refugee camps in Sudan .
How is it our fault and what do they think we can do about it ?.......just seems strange

I do think that decent America has had just about their fill of this and State Governors will have to completely sanitise their Police or they are going to have huge Social unrest......and quite justifiably .I think this one will grow bigger than Rodney King especially with the Corona Frustrations and hardships in the background and imbecilic soundbites from Trump.

I think you may have missed the subtle satire in my comment.

But yes, I have no clue how to fix things in the USA; the "land of the free" appears to measure freedom by how much cash someone has.